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Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

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Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#241

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

jwells89 wrote: post #234
vanattab wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it so much better then other passthrough vr headsets?

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

I just want to point out that despite this is one of the highest resolution VR screens on the planet right now, the pixel density would have to double once again in order to achieve Retina resolution. This is why Apple doesn't say "Retina" when talking about Vision Pro.

For people who think they'll be designing and coding on Vision Pro virtual screens all day might be disappointed.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#242

Post by semi-extrinsic »

retskrad wrote: post #197

Based on the articles I've read about this product, it might be the most advanced consumer tech we've ever seen. It would be a surprise if the production was a smooth sailing.

I quite frankly don't understand what makes this the most advanced consumer tech ever.

What about mRNA vaccines? Centimetre-accuracy differential GPS navigation systems that fit the palm of your hand, like the uBlox f9p? 3D printers like the Ultimaker S5 that can feed carbon fiber thread into the print? High-end cameras like the Sony A1?

What is the defining feature(s) that makes a new VR headset so much more advanced?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#243

Post by wcarss »

mmastrac wrote: post #223
Filligree wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be getting one to use for coding. One person does not a demand frenzy make, but having 'infinite' monitor space is a killer app to me.

What does Apple's virtual monitor provide over the N existing virtual monitor solutions that you've waited this long? Honest question as this tech has been around for ages.

As a person who wanted VR monitors, I backed the original Oculus Dev Kit 1 a decade ago, and it was terrible for that purpose. So I got the DK2, and the Vive, and the Index afterwards, trying each.

The Index pretty much has it -- it's doable. I can read comfortably in there, or watch a youtube video and not feel like I'm getting some grainy, crappy version, but it's just barely there. It's very heavy and hot, though, so I almost never choose to use it.

The claimed resolution of the Vision Pro is unbelievably larger than the Index. I forget what the numbers were exactly, but they claimed to be able to virtualize "multiple 4k monitors" or something, and the per-eye resolutions _actually supported that_.

The next thing is: it's gotta be reasonably light, balanced, and cool, so I can wear it for an hour and not get intense neck pain or nausea. I'm skeptical but, hey, we gotta keep trying.

If it hits those points: it'll be a great virtual monitor and a lot more.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#244

Post by jwells89 »

3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #241
jwells89 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

I just want to point out that despite this is one of the highest resolution VR screens on the planet right now, the pixel density would have to double once again in order to achieve Retina resolution. This is why Apple doesn't say "Retina" when talking about Vision Pro. For people who think they'll be designing and coding on Vision Pro virtual screens all day might be disappointed.

Certainly text won’t be as comfortable to read as on a high DPI display, but it’ll at least be usable, which is a notable step up from where things stand now. I own a Quest 2 and though it’s fine for gaming I can’t imagine using it for work in any capacity at all.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#245

Post by aeyes »

jwells89 wrote: post #234
vanattab wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it so much better then other passthrough vr headsets?

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

But in about 3 more generations all of these features will be the standard in 500$ headsets. Just being better by making a device more expensive doesn't lead to more sales.

What's the killer app for this device which other devices on the market don't support today?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#246

Post by lotsofpulp »

placatedmayhem wrote: post #51
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

I am very pessimistic about the future of VR beyond it being super nice for niche cases. But I think there’s something fundamentally good about: 1) Apple taking a stab at it, because it’s the kind of thing where UX really matters and Apple does UX well. 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’r…

> 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’re not bursting at the seams with cash, talent, and runway. I feel like the iPhone mini being only two years long is a strong counterpoint to this. There's a small hope for an iPhone 15 mini, but with no 14 mini, it's a long shot. It accounted for 6% of…

Why can does apple need a new mini every year, or even every 2 years? The 13 mini bought today will probably still do everything that 90% of customers need it to do for another 5 years. Even the SE which is 3 years old now can probably do most things for another 5 years.

Also, the 12 mini was released 6 months after the 2020 SE, and the 2020 SE was released ~4 years after the previous SE. it stands to reason that many people who wanted a smaller phone jumped on the 2020 SE, and then had no reason to buy a 12 mini.

Also, the 12 mini battery life sucked. The 13 mini is perfectly usable though.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#247

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

jwells89 wrote: post #244
3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to point out that despite this is one of the highest resolution VR screens on the planet right now, the pixel density would have to double once again in order to achieve Retina resolution. This is why Apple doesn't say "Retina" when talking about Vision Pro. For people who think they'll be designing and coding on Vision Pro virtual screens all day might be disappointed.

Certainly text won’t be as comfortable to read as on a high DPI display, but it’ll at least be usable, which is a notable step up from where things stand now. I own a Quest 2 and though it’s fine for gaming I can’t imagine using it for work in any capacity at all.

Yes, the resolution should be roughly comparable to working on a typical 20-something inch HD PC screen from normal desk distance.

EDIT: Although since the screen pixels are aligned to your eyes (head, more specifically), and not to the environment, this means the rasterization of the text will shift around as you move (even slightly). Which means it'll be slightly blurrier than a screen of similar resolution, as you can't employ "pixel snapping" and other tricks (as seen on Windows) to make low res text look better.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#248

Post by ilyt »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #207

While I'm sure Apple would prefer a full scale production run, limited availability for a new product often can create a demand frenzy that is overall beneficial as production is able to ramp up.

"Beneficial" ? Are you a scalpel ? Only scalpels benefit from that shit...

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#249

Post by redtehartykle »

smoldesu wrote: post #236
redtehartykle wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was just valued at over 3T. NVIDIA spiked. Infrastructure Bill spending is coming through as I understand it. We're in a post-vid slump growth phase.

Growth, or bubble? I don't forsee a world where Apple paves their way to 5 trillion dollar valuation. Both of their highest-margin products (iPhone and App Store) are under threat and require immediate re-arranging. They're an easy bet because "big company strong", but have so many mounting issues to deal with on the global stage. It's extremely unlikely this period of growth lasts into the future. Nvidia is, as you…

I thought a valuation of a company on a stock market was a reflection of its potential future profits.

So with these recent influx of capital to me that's the market saying that it believes Nvidia and Apple are going to bring in profits in the future so here's money now to grow in order to capture those profits that come in later.

I'm probably misunderstanding aspects here though.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#250

Post by rbanffy »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #242
retskrad wrote: post #197

Based on the articles I've read about this product, it might be the most advanced consumer tech we've ever seen. It would be a surprise if the production was a smooth sailing.

I quite frankly don't understand what makes this the most advanced consumer tech ever. What about mRNA vaccines? Centimetre-accuracy differential GPS navigation systems that fit the palm of your hand, like the uBlox f9p? 3D printers like the Ultimaker S5 that can feed carbon fiber thread into the print? High-end cameras like the Sony A1? What is the defining feature(s) that makes a new VR headset so much more advance…

It really pushes the envelope on many fronts - thermals, displays, materials, sensor integration, specialised hardware… I would never expect any rollout like that to go as planned.
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