Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#281

Post by seoulmetro » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 1:17 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #170

anoonmoose wrote: post #24

There's also some weird drama going on over a user complaining about Lyft's response to an issue, and then Lyft responding to the user's post with their real name (which was not attached to the reddit account). If Reddit removed the comment I haven't seen that yet, so the two stories feel vaguely similar in a way. https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/142094g/i_was_...

tangential, but that graveyard sort of reminds me why I left reddit. I understand that there are a lot of off topic comments, but surely there must be some better way to encourage proper moderation than having a mod delete 80% of the comments, remove the post (which in and of itself wasn't rulebreaking AFAIK), then lock the post. Then after all that have the mod speak from an ivory tower about how "Y'all can't behave…

It's terrible. It's like forums, except there are bots doing it now and things don't disappear, instead they flood the field with automod comments and empty spaces so the thread is useless.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#282

Post by triplepoint217 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 1:30 AM UTC

rjh29 wrote: post #34

I hope Lemmy does well, but I don't think it's going to replace Reddit (and that's likely fine in the eyes of the Lemmy team) Nobody wants a federated, slow, difficult to use version of reddit. Nobody wants to choose a server. We just want reddit without the bullshit. It's the same issue with Mastodon. Mastodon is down over 1 million users since last December, and I bet that's related to how difficult it is to sign u…

We're still pretty alpha, but Sift is aiming to hit what you are looking for https://sift.quest/about

We ended up launching sooner than we really planned after a reddit post last friday got more attention than we expected, so things are not polished and we are missing features, but we are developing quickly.

We're actually targeting something a bit different than reddit longer term with a more tag based curation system and a (medium term) reputation graph that we are hoping will give some new solutions to seeing things that are more trustworthy/relevant (helping with the eternal September problem, shills, and whatnot).

Check us out and tell us about post something good, let us know if you have requests or comments, we're actively integrating things people ask us for as fast as we can.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#283

Post by rjh29 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 1:50 AM UTC

LordShredda wrote: post #160

goplayoutside wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the modest technical hurdles are a feature, not a bug. From the (currently) top comment in the lemmy post you linked[1], which relates a story about alt.sysadmin.recovery in the 70's/80's: >Which brings me back to my point. A few hoops to jump through and a few initial challenges to adoption can go a long way as a filter for who can show up and interact. Of course we would want Lemmy to be welcoming to anyone w…

No one likes secret internet clubs, they're lame and end up as a circlejerk or a hugbox, much like early IRC servers and discord servers now. Opinion: lobste.rs sucks because you need to be one of the chosen people to post there, and you're only chosen if you think like someone already in there. The posts there are very high quality, but it might as well be a hivemind's blog. Why would I read someone else's comments…

I don't follow your last two paragraphs. If you unsub from the default subs and stay on smaller ones then you get exactly that small forum experience. The downvote system kills a lot of toxic arguments and insults that forums tend to be full of.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#284

Post by riceart » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 1:58 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #273

riceart wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sharding, caching and queuing doesn't break federation. That's not a core flaw. I didn’t say it did, but it doesn’t enhance it either. > As the ecosystem grows, a shortlist of popular, robust, federated instances will crop up How short is a shortlist? When does that mean just new Reddit? I suppose I would be more enthused if at the least the basic design eased standing up high traffic (or let’s be honest even mild…

Even just two-three large and popular instances is enough to make a Reddit impossible, so that's how short it can get. The performance story isn't just that the backend is written in Rust. It's also that the front is very lightweight (80kB), that the architecture is horizontally scalable, etc... I don't see in any of those links a core flaw, a problem in the initial engineering that makes it impossible for the archit…

I dunno maybe I’m wrong about the technical stuff. My minor point is that this software has some technical flaws today - forums and link aggregators are solved problems over and over again so implementation excellence is at least a unique value proposition.

I’ll quote the top-voted thread here

>> Nobody wants a federated, slow, difficult to use version of reddit. Nobody wants to choose a server.

> I want this. I want this because it's a sustainable way to have Reddit without the ads. The bad UX is an acceptable tradeoff for a platform that doesn't go to shit.

I’m just not buying how a federated system of isolated instances solves this. What fundamentally prevents the dominant oligopoly or monopoly server(s) from just being Reddit running on Lemmy? Lemmy doesn’t dictate how things are run - so why won’t a major funded instance just evolve to a new Reddit? How does Lemmy decisively get you to a Reddit without the ads? What stops a major Lemmy instance going to shit?

Just having federation as an opt in feature doesn’t force the system to evolve in a particular way.

If a “Voat” equivalent pops up it’s not like the dominant instances are going to federate with it.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#285

Post by bobsmooth » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 2:00 AM UTC

SSLy wrote: post #236

bobsmooth wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Reddit wouldn't ever ban anyone for suggesting an alternative They absolutely do. Try linking to rdrama.net, you'll get shadowbanned.

> Try linking to rdrama.net, you'll get shadowbanned. On whole plebbit or just some subs?

Whole site. I've heard that you'll get banned even for a DM with the url.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#286

Post by sudosysgen » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 2:16 AM UTC

riceart wrote: post #284

sudosysgen wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even just two-three large and popular instances is enough to make a Reddit impossible, so that's how short it can get. The performance story isn't just that the backend is written in Rust. It's also that the front is very lightweight (80kB), that the architecture is horizontally scalable, etc... I don't see in any of those links a core flaw, a problem in the initial engineering that makes it impossible for the archit…

I dunno maybe I’m wrong about the technical stuff. My minor point is that this software has some technical flaws today - forums and link aggregators are solved problems over and over again so implementation excellence is at least a unique value proposition. I’ll quote the top-voted thread here >> Nobody wants a federated, slow, difficult to use version of reddit. Nobody wants to choose a server. > I want this. I want…

> I’m just not buying how a federated system of isolated instances solves this. What fundamentally prevents the dominant oligopoly or monopoly server(s) from just being Reddit running on Lemmy? Lemmy doesn’t dictate how things are run - so why won’t a major fu.nded instance just evolve to a new Reddit? How does Lemmy decisively get you to a Reddit without the ads? What stops a major Lemmy instance going to shit?

A federated system of isolated instances doesn't solve it, because that's not a federated system. The point of federation is that the instances aren't isolated, and they're highly interchangeable. No major instance has the incentive to become a new Reddit, because it's so easy to switch instances at every level that they just don't have the moat to make that happen. It's exactly the same thing as an email provider going to shit, but even less problematic.

If a Voat instance pops up, sure, dominant instances won't federate with it. That's perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that the inter-federated dominant instances can get away with pulling a Reddit.

Federation is an opt-in feature in theory, but in practice, what's the value proposition for an instance to turn off federation today?

It's really quite simple. Without federation, there is an incentive to pull a Reddit. With federation, there is no longer an incentive to do so, because you don't have a moat. What do you think would happen if Reddit only had 1/2 of the subreddits anyone used and if you could keep access to all the same communities on a competitor?

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#287

Post by jeena » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 3:58 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #182

bhouston wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastodon's issues are: (1) poor discovery (2) if I am on one mastodon site, I can not just retweet that post, I have to go to my server and then cut-and-paste a link to that other site. (3) no quote tweeting, important for vitality. (4) and most importantly, no ranked/AI-managed feed. Thus it is filled with noise. In many ways, Mastodon is a purposely janked product because people don't want to make things easy to go…

Re: #1 I see that as closely related to #4, so see my last paragraph. To #2, a browser extension to help with this would be great, and wouldn't be hard. I'd expect that to come sooner or later. I agree re: QT, and some Fediverse software has it already. It's coming. Ranked/AI managed feeds are very much possible to do with Mastodon/Fediverse. You just can't expect it to get built into the main Mastodon UI. However yo…

For #2 this exists: https://github.com/rugk/mastodon-simplified-federation

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#288

Post by basch » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 4:11 AM UTC

rprospero wrote: post #167

basch wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better way forward is to really take the design back to primitives. Reddit/NH/Twitter/Youtube/Google all default to favoring freshness. I believe this design assumption to be a mistake. A lot of what gets posted would be better served by some hybrid of a wiki+chatroom/forum. For example, Ill just pick a thread that gets posted every week. In the what else will I like subreddit, there is constantly a "post your best…

My experience with php style forums has been that the communities frown upon bumping and necroposting. Rediscovering and commenting on an old thread is usually met with profanity from the forum regulars. If bumping creates a better social media experience, why is it condemned instead of commended?

Traditional forms are linear. I’m describing something more branching, where a bump starts a new branch off a trunk, but still nested under the original post.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#289

Post by riceart » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 5:04 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #286

riceart wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno maybe I’m wrong about the technical stuff. My minor point is that this software has some technical flaws today - forums and link aggregators are solved problems over and over again so implementation excellence is at least a unique value proposition. I’ll quote the top-voted thread here >> Nobody wants a federated, slow, difficult to use version of reddit. Nobody wants to choose a server. > I want this. I want…

> I’m just not buying how a federated system of isolated instances solves this. What fundamentally prevents the dominant oligopoly or monopoly server(s) from just being Reddit running on Lemmy? Lemmy doesn’t dictate how things are run - so why won’t a major fu.nded instance just evolve to a new Reddit? How does Lemmy decisively get you to a Reddit without the ads? What stops a major Lemmy instance going to shit? A fe…

> With federation, there is no longer an incentive to do so, because you don't have a moat

Domination is orthogonal to a technical federation feature. Once there is enough imbalance you defederate and that’s that. There’s nothing that inherently prevents gross imbalance from forming and the natural forces favoring centralization - such as funding one beefy instance - still apply.

> value proposition for an instance to turn off federation today?

Maybe not today, but it would be the same as any historical netsplit.

> What do you think would happen if Reddit only had 1/2 of the subreddits anyone used and if you could keep access to all the same communities on a competitor?

I think that puts them still in a fucking dominant position. And why automatically assume competitor vs cabal?

Anyway good luck with your project.

I’ve been using the internet since IRC and Usenet - both federated in their own way - both completely marginal.

Re: Reddit permanently bans account of user advocating Lemmy migration

#290

Post by goplayoutside » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 6:17 AM UTC

triplepoint217 wrote: post #282

rjh29 wrote: post #34

I hope Lemmy does well, but I don't think it's going to replace Reddit (and that's likely fine in the eyes of the Lemmy team) Nobody wants a federated, slow, difficult to use version of reddit. Nobody wants to choose a server. We just want reddit without the bullshit. It's the same issue with Mastodon. Mastodon is down over 1 million users since last December, and I bet that's related to how difficult it is to sign u…

We're still pretty alpha, but Sift is aiming to hit what you are looking for https://sift.quest/about We ended up launching sooner than we really planned after a reddit post last friday got more attention than we expected, so things are not polished and we are missing features, but we are developing quickly. We're actually targeting something a bit different than reddit longer term with a more tag based curation syst…

Looks good so far.

Will you be adding comments sections for each post?

Inline previews of the links, and usernames on each post, would be helpful.

What is the ellipsis to the right of each post for? It doesn't seem to do anything.

What is the integer to the left of each post? They don't seem to be in any apparent order.

I actually rather like the interface. I feel like a lack of shininess and rounded corners keeps away the 'unwashed masses' that tend to ruin forums. A different background color would be an improvement, however.