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What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

theatlantic.com

281–290 of 418 posts

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our only recurring issue is which of the six will have to die alone. Hire someone. I'm not kidding. Hire someone as a nurse/caretaker/doula now, integrate them into the group, and then you've solved your remainder problem. You can use a trust to pay them out on the death of the last member of the group. Think of it like anti-loneliness insurance. Even if you're the last one standing, you'll have someone to chat wit…

> Hire someone. There's no guarantee that the such hired individual will outlive the last of the original six - or that their life priorities won't change.

No but usually people in their eg 40s outlive people in their 60s.

Life is risk.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#282

For guys at least it is. You'll never be happier than the age 14-19 when you are with your mates on a daily basis. One solid block against the world. Against the teacher, against the principal, against the bullies, scoring weed, scoring alchol, scoring pu*y , against everybody who wants to prevent you from scoring weed, alcohol and pu*y. The problem is that this lifestyle is subsidized by parents who are the wage-sla…

> Marriage becomes something to alleviate the mysery not something done with enthusiasm

Speak for yourself. That was not the way I approached marriage, not by a long shot.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#283
Friendships are great. They are voluntary and aren't transactional. Romantic relationships tend in the direction of transactional (and what can you offer me?) and that makes for a strange dynamic.

> "she will be there after you"

That's... not cool to say? A self fulfilling prophecy: I'd leave instantly.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The casual sex "choice" doesn't apply to the majority of adults (most straight men don't have the option of multiple sex partners, most women don't want them) so it's difficult to see its relevance here. How much of that is social expectation? I can see the circular reasoning here: can I get out? That is a challenge. Social expectations set boundaries: changing those boundaries takes a lot of work. It's still possi…

there are plenty of societal pressures against family life. and societal expectations are against faith and trust in the other person

> societal expectations are against faith and trust in the other person

That implies a need for faith and trust in a person. Where does is that need come from? Committed romance.

If that isn't my goal, what do I have to fear?

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#286
post #120

This is an edge case. Marines in particular, and the military members in general, will form a special bond that can seldom be duplicated elsewhere. And that has been my experience. I was among a group of six that met at the schoolhouse after boot camp. We did not get sent to the same units, but we were all PCS'd to the same base. Two of us (not myself) made a career of the corps, and the others went to school after s…

This used to be much more common, for men too. You don't have to go too far back in history to find a time when intense male friendships were not at all unusual, complete with holding hands and writing love letters to each other. Of course, some of these were gay relationships, hiding in plain sight pretending to be socially acceptable non-sexual intense male friendships. But gays wouldn't have been able to hide that…

Is it really positive in today's context though? When OP said only one spouse out of this whole group accepted these special friendships, I'm guessing that the time spent maintaining these kinds of friendships is getting in the way of marriages. If hardly any women will stay married to a guy with friendships like this, that's kind of a problem if he wants to be married.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#287
post #106

As someone who departed a miserable marriage and now find myself very alone with very few friends the only advice I can give is take very, very good care of your marriage and take very, very good care of your friendships. Comparing wife / husband to friends is like apples and pears. It's like asking which of your children you like the most. If friends complain about the time spent with your partner, ditch them and if…

Well said - the hierarchy might be the issue, not who happens to be at the top of it.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#288
post #120

This is an edge case. Marines in particular, and the military members in general, will form a special bond that can seldom be duplicated elsewhere. And that has been my experience. I was among a group of six that met at the schoolhouse after boot camp. We did not get sent to the same units, but we were all PCS'd to the same base. Two of us (not myself) made a career of the corps, and the others went to school after s…

"seldom duplicated elsewhere" I hear this same sentiment from marines, cops, fireman, and fraternity members. I also hear it from Masons, Elks, Shriners, etc. I don't understand why men have to think they've "discovered" something about lifelong bonds that is exclusive to just men's clubs. My guess is that men are taught not to have strong emotional bonds with anyone but their mothers or wives, and then think it is s…

> > I don't understand why men have to think they've "discovered" something about lifelong bonds that is exclusive to just men's club

It's special because you risk your life together. You kill the enemy together while it's conspiring to kill you and your friends, but you manage to outsmart them and get to live.

Also Nature, when Nature comes at you and you find a way to dominate and resist the elements and ride it out, so that you make it home.

Men are not made to bob their heads in a club, they are made for "close call" type of scenarios and situations, if it doesn't come down to a close call with very high stakes on the line then it's kinda boring and pedestrian which is the prelude to depression and feelings of worthlessness

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to maintain your friends relationships from younger days. You need to check-in, maintain a social circle, etc. It takes work. The magic is if you keep your core group close (and it's easier today with the Internet to keep in touch) then when you are able to get together (may be once a year!) you'l just pick it up like you hung out yesterday.

But many of us didn’t, or didn’t have a great youth network in the first place. So you know, hopefully that’s not the only possibility.

Yeah, that's a conundrum to be sure. It sort of feels logical that if you weren't successful at making friends during the prime years for that (youth, young adulthood) then there's not much reason to believe you'll have more success in the more difficult years.

For example, I sort of maintain 2 friend tiers. Tier 1 friends are the "friends for life" I've made along the way. We all maintain a chatter and we may not see each other frequently but we do when the opportunity arrises and we just pick it up, totally natural, etc. This group is pretty much immutable at this point besides the death of friends along the way to our own death.

Tier 2 friends are more like "friends of convenience". These types will drop in and out of your life for a variety of reasons. They're the kinds of people that are your wife's mom friends' husbands, work friends, neighbors, etc. You socialize on your better behavior and although you enjoy each others company, you're usually just meeting because of some convenience, like a BBQ or child's/their birthday, community event or w/e.

Because the truth is this - most guys, by the time they either have created a family or are looking to create one, aren't looking for new friends. I'm not interested in trying to build new, deep relationships with other guys at this point. I have the family I've built, my core friends that I have real bonds with, and my acquaintances that we enjoy each other's company and would attend each others's funeral, but wouldn't speak at it.

I think joining an organization is your best bet. Getting involved in something and becoming an active member in it. You need something that forms a common bond with other people looking for that sort of thing.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#290
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1970s/GenX/latchkey have entered the chat.

as an 80s kid raised by a helicopter stay-at-home parent, i've always been deeply envious of the independence afforded to latchkey kids

The latchkey kids did not find it to be a bed of roses. Turns out that a lot of kids miss parents when they don't have them.
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