The Unabomber was right.
Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
281–290 of 396 posts
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
As kid I spent time in an old fashioned Russian serf type village, where a bunch of families lived together and worked a bunch of strips of land. It was the best time I ever had. Everyone had a job to do, and they were happy to let you help. The tasks you were given seemed fulfilling and meaningful. Today is horrible. Nobody lives with family or knows neighbors around here. No more church. There are some craft clubs,…
> There are some craft clubs, but what's the point? Anything you can make pales in comparison to what you can get for a couple of bucks from Amazon. This is unhealthy. > There are a bunch of hobbies but they also seem pointless when you look at a few Youtube videos and see all the popular channels doing exactly what you would like to but a million times better. This is unhealthy. Over a decade ago, I had to accept th…
> This is unhealthy.
And? How does one magically snap their fingers and change their hard-to-control brain? OP has a point in everything they're saying. Calling it unhealthy doesn't magically fix (inverse) their (very real/probably populous) perspective.
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a problem with a woman dedicated to washing your laundry at home? Seems like women today have to go to work and do that in the evening anyways.
Yes, there is a problem with domestic labor being so demanding as to demand an entire human being's full time attention. That's why modernity is amazing.
Is it more meaningful if your labour is instead spent as a minute cog in a vast and faceless corporation? At least you can wear the clothes you wash.
Don’t get me wrong, washing machines are great, probably one of the greatest inventions ever. We now can lead meaningful and consequential lives, but newly potent sources of inconsequentiality have arisen.
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#284The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…
I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism. When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corp…
You’re talking about a different type of effect where corporations killed all the small players and that’s very true but has nothing to do with the ideological individualism, at least not directly but could as well indirectly but let’s be clear what we’re discussing and if they’re intertwined let’s make that explicit. Individualism discussed here leads people to lonelinese and communities to vanish around them..
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#285I live in a big city, but I'm terribly lonely. - I live alone. - I work hybrid, but when I go into the office, it's more or less empty and I spend all my time on zoom calls. - My family lives far away. - I'm single. Most weeks, my only social interaction is at the local bar, where I'm a regular, or various dates from apps. Excesses of both of these is unhealthy in different ways. I've been pushing myself to go to mee…
This isn't really an actionable response, but what I did in this situation was move to where my friends were. I'm lucky in that the majority of the people I met in college happen to live around a particular area of the country, so I transferred there after much pestering on their part over the last few years. I honestly haven't been this happy in years.
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
As kid I spent time in an old fashioned Russian serf type village, where a bunch of families lived together and worked a bunch of strips of land. It was the best time I ever had. Everyone had a job to do, and they were happy to let you help. The tasks you were given seemed fulfilling and meaningful. Today is horrible. Nobody lives with family or knows neighbors around here. No more church. There are some craft clubs,…
> There are some craft clubs, but what's the point? Anything you can make pales in comparison to what you can get for a couple of bucks from Amazon. This is unhealthy. > There are a bunch of hobbies but they also seem pointless when you look at a few Youtube videos and see all the popular channels doing exactly what you would like to but a million times better. This is unhealthy. Over a decade ago, I had to accept th…
>The end product isn't what you walk away with; it's the time you spend enjoying doing something.
Well, good luck enjoying anything when you're surrounded by environmental feedback that points to its futility.
Picking up hobbies so that you have a socially acceptable excuse to interact with to people is ass-backwards.
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am posting this as a person born and raised in a rather small community. I personally do not yearn for the good old days when 'everyone knew everyone' and there were things to do together. We did things together, because of geographical convenience and random chance. We had no other options so we did kids things. Granted, I was lucky to be included in that particular group, because they all were much, much smarter…
It's not just leave-me-alone individualism. It's this new, belligerent "Toxic Individualism" that's taken hold, supported by recent technological change (such as social media) and recent political/cultural change (many examples). A regular individualist simply prefers to operate on their own, outside of society and ignore collective activities. This new breed of individualism is more focused on attacking society and…
You're the only one introducing "Toxic Individualism" in this thread.
I wonder what do you mean by it?
Because, just as well, there's an aggressive collectivist movement which directly attacks individuals (and individual choices).
It's really easy to switch from "I like to do my things alone, let me be" to "society is evil" after having been made a pariah by the "collective".
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#288I live in a big city, but I'm terribly lonely. - I live alone. - I work hybrid, but when I go into the office, it's more or less empty and I spend all my time on zoom calls. - My family lives far away. - I'm single. Most weeks, my only social interaction is at the local bar, where I'm a regular, or various dates from apps. Excesses of both of these is unhealthy in different ways. I've been pushing myself to go to mee…
Big city seems to be the key. Loneliness is the default in a modern city, because we can. It used to be that daily needs led to friction that sometimes (if people were social enough) led to interaction (introverts were much less likely to engage so it usually took a lot of friction before interaction becomes possible). Schools (and universities) still provide the largest field for such interaction. Everything else ha…
The most important thing is removing cars. Get people to walk, you’ll visit more local places and see more local people rather than a random arrangement of people all over the place.
You’ll also bump in to people while walking which doesn’t happen in cars.
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have some friends at the bar, and I'm definitely considered welcome as a regular, and always have a good time, etc. But they're mostly drinking buddies, and not much more outside of that, however I'd like to try harder to change that.
What do you imagine a friend is? Mostly they are drinking buddies, or buddies. I have not had a friend in over 30 years who was anything more than someone I knew from an activity we both did or a place we both frequented. People (especially men) pretty much stop having "deep" friendships once they are adults.
My wife's closest 10 or so friends are all from school era, 20+ years ago.
My close friends are all people I've met as an adult - I'd consider them deep friendships: we've travelled together, catch up regularly, know each others' parents and kids, discuss the issues of the world, etc.
But, like school, you need enough time around a common place or interest to develop all that. In my cases, it was usually shared, social offices or having friends in common.
Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But you'll do all that against massive societal forces. What forces exactly? > A few decades back you'd join one of the few organizations or clubs that happened in your area, and instantly be in a reliable community (if you adapt a little - let's ignore all the downsides for a moment). I’ve joined two different clubs. One 7 years ago and one this year. Both have resulted in good friends, outings, and even trips to…
Out of curiosity, where do you live?
SF Bay Area