Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#281

Post by kova12 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

bsedlm wrote: post #11

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

Complacency is not a crime, true; nobody is obligated to take arms against his government, but at certain point the argument that you are but a bystander no longer works. For example if someone is dying on your watch and you won't help, you are at a minimum morally guilty. It's your government after all, you have to bear some sort of responsibility for its actions.

Same by the way applies to everybody else, USA folks included

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#282

Post by 331c8c71 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #173

croes wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong question. If Russians have a choice, why not Ukrainians? People who don't wont to fight are bad as soldiers so why force them?

> Wrong question. If Russians have a choice, why not Ukrainians? Ask the Russians who are bombing them and preventing them from leaving. Russia has already broken the cease-fire meant to evacuate civilians. Or ask the Russians who started the war. Ask the Russians carrying out their leadership's orders. Russians are the ones taking away Ukrainians' choices.

> Russia has already broken the cease-fire meant to evacuate civilians.

Russians are claiming the contrary.

https://tass.com/society/1417395

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#283

Post by mantas » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #61

bsedlm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

I'm all for annihilating Russia's economy (even if it means civilians are caught in the crossfire) but the treatment GP received after leaving is extremely disheartening. The goal should be to welcome fleeing Russians with open arms and make it as easy as possible for them to permanently put down roots.

The problem is how to separate Russians fleeing Putin from Russians who just look for financial comfort and still support Putin.

One of stark examples is Turks in Germany still voting for Erdogan.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#284

Post by pelasaco » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

ushakov wrote: post #233

mbreese wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only about revolting, but without a free press, economic sanctions are one way to get people to know that something is going on. Russian citizens may not even know what is happening, but when they suddenly can’t buy thing, when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket… that gets people to pay attention.

everyone in Russia knows what's going on but when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket the blame will be on companies and on the west take it from ex-Russian

exactly. They were all fine with Putin, being Putin... since 97. Now, remote workers cannot get their salary because of the SWIFT sanction, Apple Pay stops to work and NOW suddenly it is serious?

The struggle is real (TM).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#285

Post by samstave » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

tiahura wrote: post #188

jmyeet wrote: post #122

Russia is seizing foreign currency reserves (effectively, by forcing conversion to the ruble) held by average Russian citizens. These sanctions are going to be a bad time for them. There are no military options so what else can you do? Still, we shouldn't forget that sanctions are a form of collective punishment that disproportionately affect average citizens. My faint glimmer of hope here is that the West finally ta…

The EU needs to do something about Cyprus.

Do ypu recall when RUssian oligarch assets were seized in Cyprus as it was their 'carribean' money laundering banking system.

Cyprus is literally the hoard of Russian oligarchs, yet I am sure they have been divesting from Cyprus to other locales.. of which were exposed in Panama Papers..

"the bank of switzerland is seizing accounts" (lit just reported n NPR)

---

the author of the book on klepto is talking about laundering wealth via anon companies to "park" (his words) wealth in straight economies.

"there is an entire industry servicing kleptokrats from across the world"

--

Deleware being a core component t money laundering...

Kleptopia...

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#286

Post by lostmsu » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

akrymski wrote: post #262

nerkicacy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans can change government during election every few years if they don't like it. Russians can't. That's why the only way is 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'.

Except you get 3-15 years in jail for protesting in Russia.

There are only so many jails, temporary detention facilities, and judges to give the verdicts.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#287

Post by dunkelheit » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

therusskiy wrote: post #223

CGamesPlay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for the flights thing? I hadn't heard that yet. Was your phone inspected when you left the country? Were you interviewed?

Sorry the news are in Russian: https://yandex.ru/news/story/Rosaviaciya_rekomendovala_perev... As for the "interview", thankfully no, but FSB does stop a lot of people to inspect their phones and question them, which can take 40 minutes. I had to clean my social networks and direct messages of any posts against the war and the government.

AFAIU this applies only to Russian airlines because their leased planes can be confiscated abroad. But e.g. Turkish airlines can still fly.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#288

Post by filomeno » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #221

lenkite wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

The US is the country of protests, there were plenty of protests against that war. I’ve been to a few myself.

Oh, it's good to know that. Maybe Russia could get away with the invasion without sanctions just letting his people protest against the war. No matter if the outcome of the war is the same, or if Putin is elected again (as happened with George W. Bush in the US).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#289

Post by tyrfing » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

axg11 wrote: post #243

optimalonpaper wrote: post #192

No one thinks that a regular Ivan from some russian city (on his own) is responsible for the war and should suffer. And I see how you could (and probably should, at some level) feel sorry for russians fleeing the country. But this is the only way to tell them that they -- collective Ivans, Russian society as a whole -- should stand up and act: they should articulate their content, they should protest against putin's…

I see both sides to this. Yes, Russians should protest against the horrible actions of their government. On the other hand, if you’re an average Russian with few/no international ties, would you really risk protesting against a government with a demonstrated track record of murdering dissidents and imprisoning protestors? NATO/the West is choosing to worsen the lives of 144 million Russian citizens due to the actions…

Putin has popular support, and there's no evidence that Russians are against the war. This sort of argument is about as intellectually dishonest as saying Trump didn't represent the US. Factually, he did. A small minority fleeing the country isn't evidence that everyone opposes the country's leadership, and most of the anecdotes from Russians are about avoiding personal involvement - the fear is of being drafted into the war.

edit: I know this is an unpopular point, but there is just zero basis for saying that Putin isn't supported by his country. He absolutely is, which makes the situation much more complicated.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#290

Post by AnonHP » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

The number of people who can flee and are able and/or willing to do it must be a tiny percentage, no? Among those, many may also be privileged in certain ways to actually do it.

I wonder how those who are left behind (or stay behind) may react. This whole situation is very messy, and it’s difficult (for me) to see how this will shape up, when the conflict will end, and at what cost.