Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#221

Post by tartoran » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #130

Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

The US is the country of protests, there were plenty of protests against that war. I’ve been to a few myself.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#222

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #198

croes wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nazis were stopped from outside and the USSR by people from it's government because of it's economic downfall.

> The Nazis were stopped from outside Yes, after killing 30 million+ people. It would have been much easier if Germans didn't enable them or someone took out Hitler in 1938. And we punished Germany for generations because of it. The US still has military bases there to this day.

Germany has been fully sovereign since 1991; they can ask the US troops to leave whenever they want to. The existence of US basis there now can hardly be considered “punishment”.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#223

Post by therusskiy » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

CGamesPlay wrote: post #70

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

Do you have a source for the flights thing? I hadn't heard that yet. Was your phone inspected when you left the country? Were you interviewed?

Sorry the news are in Russian: https://yandex.ru/news/story/Rosaviaciya_rekomendovala_perev...

As for the "interview", thankfully no, but FSB does stop a lot of people to inspect their phones and question them, which can take 40 minutes.

I had to clean my social networks and direct messages of any posts against the war and the government.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#224

Post by karpierz » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #21

bluejekyll wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the exactly why lies and dis/misinformation are so dangerous to society. It makes every source questionable, even one’s like the economist that have tended to give fairly accurate balanced news. The first amendment is a double edged sword, but all false statements need to be challenged so that a free and Democratic society can function properly. The problem is that lies are cheap to produce, and the truth…

Are you suggesting that free speech is responsible for misinformation? The first amendment is absolutely not a double-edged sword. The alternative is STRICTLY worse. You end up with governments, like China's, who lie and challenging that lie is punishable.

Another alternative is Canada, where free speech isn't an absolute right but somehow the whole country hasn't descended into a totalitarian dictatorship.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#225

Post by hatsubishi » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #90

There's nothing surprising about it. There is at least one recent, well documented case of mass emigration due to the economic collapse of an authoritarian regime. Millions of people have left Venezuela since the late 2000s [1]. Considering Russia is barely richer than Spain whilst having 3x the population and the fact it's about to get much worse, I would expect millions of Russians to leave in the next few years. […

Spain is a very rich country though, 10th in the world by total wealth. What you're comparing is the current GDP, which is a different thing than being rich, it's production. In Spain production may be lower but still people enjoy a great quality of life because they are living of the wealth generated before, i.e. everything is extremely cheap including real estate.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#226

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #185

hutzlibu wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, it just ensures that the only people left in Russia are the ones who support Putin." It does not, as only a very tiny fraction of those who want to get out, can actually get out. And some choose to stay because of family, buisness, whatever. But those who left will be the reminder of the status quo for everyone - especially if it was the well educated who left. "And like I said, Ukrainians have no choice." But t…

Russia declared a cease-fire to evacuate civilians but has already broken it. > And have you stopped the iraq war? Or closed guantanamo? Or stopped the war in yemen? I'm not American. Ask a yank. > But this is the choice of the ukrainian government. I am against mandatory conscripting and would not accept to be force drafted myself. And I would not want to fight next to people who might flee any second. Ask a woman w…

So which state are you from? I know only of a very few, with their hands mostly clean.

But you get the point, that your possibilities as an individual (with maybe responsibilities for a family) are quite limited to stop the actions of a whole state?

And like I said, leaving the state is very effective protesting. No more state support anymore from that person, but one more who had enough. That gives the remaining something to think.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#227

Post by formvoltron » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

drakonka wrote: post #112

jacquesm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair chance it would turn into a bloodbath. Better would a national strike. Equally difficult to organize but much harder to attack.

It did turn into a bloodbath at Euromaidan, but the people still came out, for months, and fought to change a corrupt regime that lied to them, as they have in many other countries in the past. Russians are not helpless. The main argument when this gets brought up seems to be that it's going to be hard and people will get hurt. Of course Putin isn't going to just throw up his hands and say "Ok guys, you win, I'm out"…

Euromaidan was not simply shaking keys and they were not enough of a %. They were just a couple thousand. Easy to beat into submission.

I'm saying there needs to be 1 or 2 million Muskovites that simply wake up on Sunday and collectively decide to walk down to the Red Square and shake their keys. This will send a message to Putin that there are a large number of Russians who are not happy with his actions.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#228

Post by pelasaco » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #93

Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

At this point, it doesn't look at all like we can practically expect a popular revolt. For me there are two outcomes to target with the sanctions: * Make life unpleasant enough for the oligarchs that they replace Putin with someone less intent on ruining the nice thing they had going. * Handicap Russia's ability to wage war. This includes eliminating their ability to buy supplies and destroying their morale. It's the…

> * Handicap Russia's ability to wage war. This includes eliminating their ability to buy supplies and destroying their morale.

But if we still fear the atomic war, he can still threatens Europe with that.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#229

Post by Mikeb85 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #162

Mikeb85 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fleeing the country is a strong peaceful revolt on the other hand No, it just ensures that the only people left in Russia are the ones who support Putin. And like I said, Ukrainians have no choice. Why should Russians? As another poster said, even autocracies need a certain level of support to operate. It's not fair to punish Russians but their country is literally waging a full scale war while threatening the west…

Every Russian who leaves is a Russian who won't get conscripted, who will pay no more taxes to Putin. They know what's going on on the inside and can share with the rest of us so we can make informed decisions. And aside from all of that, they no longer have to fear for their lives if they oppose the regime. From both a humanitarian and a strategic perspective, embracing Russian defectors is the very most important t…

> From both a humanitarian and a strategic perspective, embracing Russian defectors is the very most important thing that we can be doing right now that we aren't already doing. The only reason not to do so is hate.

No, the most humanitarian thing to do is end a war in which civilians are actually being killed.

Not embracing those who supported Putin get to this point but suddenly flee when they're personally inconvenienced.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#230

Post by forty » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

the_lonely_road wrote: post #155

nuccy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[disclaimer: Ukrainian here] > Older generation (who are pro-Russian) suggested being careful around young people as they may be hostile to Russians, even those who are running away from Putin Of course, instead of even attempting to change your country, where there is no war on its territory, you flee. Why should they be kind to you? > The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countrie…

Rude and unnecessary. I’m not going to die fighting FOR my country so I’m sure as hell not going to die fighting against it.

Fighting against Putin would probably be fighting FOR your country at that point :)

I'm not pretending I would be better than you and honestly I would certainly have fled too in similar situation. But at some point someone is going to have to do something about the Putin situation, and unfortunately at this point, only Russians can do something that have not a significant chance to end in nuclear apocalypse. Hopefully some brave people over there that remember how tyrans should be treated (but once again, I would never blame anyone for not endangering their families)