Daddy isn’t coming back • Hacker News Board

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#281

Post by khazhoux » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:45 AM UTC

panic wrote: post #164

SapporoChris wrote: post #3

I have a black thought on this. I would be happy if someone corrected me. When something breaks, sometimes we repair it, sometimes we throw it out. The more valuable the item, the more we will spend to fix it. However even with the most valuable items, we sometimes reluctantly decide that it is broken beyond repair. Are people like this? Are some simply too broken to fix? I feel awful thinking this, but I wonder if t…

"Broken" is always with respect to some function that we're expecting an object to perform. We expect a hammer to be able to drive nails into wood; if it can't do that, we say it's broken. A person has no intrinsic function, so we can't say that they're broken. It would be more accurate to say the system placing that expectation on them is broken, or at least in need of improvement. The example of socialized healthca…

> A person has no intrinsic function, so we can't say that they're broken.

I disagree. When you see people whose brains are so fried they spend their entire waking state walking in and out of traffic screaming incoherently at everyone and no one, and their mind exists in a different reality with no connection to the actual, and there's no medical treatment (or, any way to administer) to overcome the mental disease compounded by extreme drug use... I find it hard to argue that such a person is not "broken."

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#282

Post by staticautomatic » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:48 AM UTC

numair wrote: post #144

jstx1 wrote: post #9

Knowing that you're at high risk of suicide or have other serious mental health problems is also a good reason to avoid having kids. This isn't directed at the author of the article or their partner; it's how I think when I plan my own life.

There are so many things that could be said about correlation, causation, million-year-old biological and evolutionary design for the changes that happen to people when they have kids, and so on... But all I will say is that I think you’ve just given people a bunch of lousy advice without prefacing it with the disclaimer of “I am of the personal belief...”

I feel like “I am of the personal belief…” goes without saying on the internet.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#283

Post by totetsu » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

R0b0t1 wrote: post #198

chillwaves wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather spend the resources to help that person than enable another sociopathic billionaire, who would be far more dangerous to society.

We're not talking, in these instances, of someone who is mentally able but with a mobility issue, we are talking about people who will never contribute to society. That's money taken away from you, not some billionaire. That said -- rounding up people and killing them is insane. But failing to test for birth defects and not working to prevent them is also insane. Some ways this thread is going are kind of concerning,…

Could caring for these kind of people have a utility in helping us think about compassion, and our values in a more broad way, that enables not making sub optimal decisions in cases that would have negative returns.. To use this thread as an example .. if we were in a society that was black and white utilitarian about one type of disability, it might lead to that thinking being applied directly and 'naturally' to this mental health issue also.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#284

Post by quadrangle » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:19 AM UTC

GDC7 wrote: post #184

quadrangle wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "own the world" idea sounds more like the manic side of bipolar disorder rather than a healthy moderation that represents a "non-depressed person". You're right that "own the world" mania is dangerous and destructive. I hope you're not suggesting that this is the inevitable tragic state as the only alternative to depression. People in the thousands-of-years-ago African plains were still people. They weren't in a…

> There really are healthy moderated ways to live. Nature doesn't like moderation. It likes a variety of many extremes so that it can reward those extremes which are particularly adapted/lucky to win in that particular moment. And win big.

Nature doesn't have likes. Yes, there are various sorts of equilibria that are stable and other conditions that are unstable. And some forms of moderation that might be ideal are inherently unstable. But people still work to maintain moderation, and they would have done so 20,000 years ago as well.

Most extremes are themselves unstable and do not persist over the long-term. Winning big in the short-term does not correlate to long-term thriving. Cultures and species that have been dominant but then went extinct are numerous. Meanwhile, a lot of non-dominant forms of life have survived the eons.

The entire nature of life is a battle against extremes. We moderate in how much we eat, sleep, drink… Homeostasis is not a condition of being truly static and unchanging, it's a constant struggle against entropy. We constantly put in effort toward maintaining our moderation that defines a thriving life, and eventually we all fail and return to dust. Those of us who fall into extremes tend to lose our homeostasis sooner and return to dust faster.

I'm not saying that maintaining moderation is trivial. But the way most people live is through maintaining moderation via all the effort it takes to do that, to resist the pitfalls of the extremes. That includes getting support from others (e.g. therapists). If there's one thing we can say confidently about humans across the ages, it's that we are social and live in supportive groups that help each other.

It's not a matter of somehow just passively finding moderation. It's an active process, and we also don't do it alone.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#285

Post by cloudedcordial » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

1MachineElf wrote: post #248

cloudedcordial wrote: post #247

A friend's acquintance has been mentally ill for the last 10 years. They lost their spouse, their job, their car ... everything! They've been gradually increasingly incoherent in their speech over time. They've been resisting treatments. We are not doctors and won't armchair diagnose them, but we figured out something was wrong. We called a hotline for mental health services trying to see how non-family could help. T…

Have you tried attaining power of attorney?

I'm just an acquaintance. I don't know if the family got power of attorney.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#286

Post by trevyn » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

cloudedcordial wrote: post #247

A friend's acquintance has been mentally ill for the last 10 years. They lost their spouse, their job, their car ... everything! They've been gradually increasingly incoherent in their speech over time. They've been resisting treatments. We are not doctors and won't armchair diagnose them, but we figured out something was wrong. We called a hotline for mental health services trying to see how non-family could help. T…

Have you offered a free apartment where they can live alone?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#287

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

R0b0t1 wrote: post #194

perl4ever wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence of suicidal ideation is a specific example (and probably the most common) of what gets people involuntarily admitted to a mental ward. In fact, there are almost certainly more people admitted on that basis than actually have it, because if someone is not clearly a danger to themselves or others, but seriously needs help, the easiest way for emergency personnel to fudge it is by reporting a mention of suicide…

No, you prove it. If incidence of suicidal ideation goes up with number of involuntary holds then it means that psych facilities are not treating the problem. That is enough: that they are provably not treating it. First do no harm means you have to be causing good; ambivalence is treated as likely harm because it is invasive.

Prove what?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#288

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #266

jolux wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, what. Psychiatrists have to commit you if they think you're an immediate danger to yourself. I'm sure shitty ones do it in situations where they shouldn't, but speaking as someone who has actually experienced being suicidal, my psychiatrist was the only person I actually fully trusted to help me get what I needed. Maybe I'm just lucky to have ended up with psychs who will take on more risk to avoid having to com…

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#289

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

likecharges wrote: post #253

anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Perhaps this is a regional difference, but you might be confusing the suicide hotline with a petition for involuntary admission. The suicide hotline provides someone to talk to. The person might not even know your name or address. What you’ve described is involuntary admission. Any adult can petition for another person to be brought to a hospital and evaluated, but the hospital decides if the person is admitted and/o…

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#290

Post by listless » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:38 AM UTC

rubyist5eva wrote: post #76

As someone that was on medication that made me think about comitting suicide regularly, and I've learned to cope and overcome it somewhat...I thought I could read this...but this was like stepping into another reality where I was gone and this was about me. :S :S. and now I'm sitting at my desk bawling my eyes out...just wanting to hold my son and never let him go.

I can relate. I cried as I read that story too. Hold your son; that sounds like a wonderful idea.

I hope you feel better my friend. You’re not alone here.