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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#281

Post by akomtu »

nawitus wrote: post #248
akomtu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of the US population lives paycheck to paycheck and they need cars. I'm not sure their minimum wage can afford them carbon taxes.

Poorer countries in Europe tax fuel more. If you raise fuel tax, people will find ways to buy less fuel. Generally this means more efficient (often smaller) cars, and perhaps prioritizing living more near to jobs etc. The main problem is that fuel tax should be increased slowly so people can change their consumption accordingly.

That's like reducing the oxygen level for lab rats to see how they would adapt. These people have 500 bucks in savings and no health insurance.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#282

Post by imtringued »

CameronNemo wrote: post #63
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

TCO/month has been 200€ for me for a cheap ICE. This includes car purchase, yearly servicing, random repairs and gasoline. There is no way for me to spend less money without buying used.

The Dacia Spring would cost me 200€ TCO/month. A Kia Soul EV with 60kWH could cost me 250€ TCO/month for a slightly bigger car and more range+max speed. I wouldn't save money, but I also wouldn't break the bank.

Right now it's a wash. I haven't calculated CO2 tax increases into the TCO though. Give it another 5 years and you would have to be stupid to buy ICEs.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#283

Post by acomjean »

abfan1127 wrote: post #114
foepys wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn't surprise anybody. Those are used for work like farms and are tax deductible.

I'd bet a ton that most F150s never see dirt. I'd also bet that most F150s see >5 year car loans.

F150 was the minimum truck when I worked in landfill construction in the Northeast and NY. They’re decent on the site dirt roads. But they ride hard and I found the handling on the road pretty bad.

They’re not popular here. Except for those that need them. (Maybe RWD and light tail and snow.. ). SUVs are it here.

I was surprised how much of the rest of the rural US uses trucks as a day to day vehicle.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#284

Post by jacquesm »

hourislate wrote: post #259
jackson1442 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's driven on a highway in Texas knows this is likely untrue, at least for most F150 owners. I see a shocking number of pristine, washed and waxed F150s every single day when I'm driving. Those and Ram 1500s dominate the roads here. I don't even live in a rural area. I live in DFW.

I live in DFW also and you are correct. I'd take a guess that 80% of F150 owners live in a quiet suburban neighborhood and have never used the truck bed. What really is insane is the folks like a neighbor down the street who has an F250 Diesel Monster truck that has never seen any off road action except the time he drove on his grass backing out of the driveway. Same with all the Jeeps with oversized tires and 12k in…

> like all the old farts buying Harley's and pretending they are some kind of bikers...shame they destroyed the brand

Actually, they kept the brand alive by buying the product.

Without those people they'd have died long ago.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#285

Post by holoduke »

foepys wrote: post #71
CameronNemo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

People buying cars for $20,000 are generally not people who can invest twice upfront for lower maintenance costs over the next ten years. Being poor (relatively speaking) is expensive, especially when you are financing.

I an in a fortunate position to earn much more than a average salary. Yet our family car is a 2005 10k infinity fx35. Car is reliable and modern enough. A perfect fit for my family of 4. I considered buying a 80k Tesla model X, but went for a 15 year old Ferrari f430 (same price). Still have the practically and a lot of extra fun. I never understood why people would buy a car younger than 15 years old.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#286

Post by IdiocyInAction »

akomtu wrote: post #130
cjblomqvist wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "problem" in the US is the cheap gas, at least compared to EU. Taxing gas according to the CO2 cost would make it drastically different in TCO.

Half of the US population lives paycheck to paycheck and they need cars. I'm not sure their minimum wage can afford them carbon taxes.

The US is far richer than Europe, with an average GDP per capita of over 10000$ higher than most western European countries. Alabama is about as rich as Germany, for instance. So if Europe can do it, then the US could easily do it.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#287

Post by holoduke »

theshrike79 wrote: post #187
Someone1234 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is down to $3 and electric $12/kWh, with the state now charging electric vehicles higher registration fees yearly to offset the gas tax savings. There's likely small savings every year, but we're talking almost $20K price difference, maybe $12K with federal (and no state) rebate, you aren't going to be breaking even. Plus fun fact: My insurance would go up a lot with a Model 3 from my current vehicle, 25% more a…

Am I understanding this right? You're saying that gas is $3/gallon and electricity is $12/kWh? Over here gas is around $7,50-$8 per gallon and electricity is around $0.05/kWh. A 100km drive in an EV costs around 2€, while in a petrol powered car the cost is 8.5€ for a low consumption car. No wonder Americans drive huge cars with no regard to consumption :D

Which country do you live? Here in the Netherlands we pay roughly 20 dollar cents per kWh and 10 dollars per gallon

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#288

Post by bdamm »

noahmbarr wrote: post #265
intrasight wrote: post #252

My opinion is that the industry has gone in the wrong direction with batteries. Cars should use swappable rechargeable batteries swapped by robots at the charging station. Faster pit stops and simpler batteries (no need for water-cooled, etc) and cheaper cars. And elimination of concern of battery warranty.

Guessing you're a non-EV owner. I've owned a Tesla for the last 6 months. Here's my experience: * It charges at home, begining the charge at 12:30AM just after the rates drop. It charges to ~240 miles of range. * For the 4 days I've wanted to go futher, charged upto 100% and that solved my problem 2 of the 4. * Other 2 days, I stopped at a charger along my way on a road trip. there was a place to grab food and take a…

Tesla Model 3 LR owner. Completely agree. There's no need for all the extra baggage for rapid battery swap. Road trips are easy already without swapping the battery. And the battery is swappable... just not rapidly. I've done many long distance road trips, and some regular road trips where I actually choose a slower (V1) supercharger because it's close to a friend's house and we can meet up for lunch or dinner while I'm passing through their city. The notification on my phone that the charge session has ended always interrupts our meal a bit earlier than we would naturally end it, but that just means no awkward goodbye. It's great.

Also, I couldn't imagine driving an EV now without liquid cooled batteries. How would you preheat the battery when you want it to be nice and warm in preparation for a rapid charge, or to gain performance on cold mornings?

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#289

Post by oblio »

holoduke wrote: post #285
foepys wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buying cars for $20,000 are generally not people who can invest twice upfront for lower maintenance costs over the next ten years. Being poor (relatively speaking) is expensive, especially when you are financing.

I an in a fortunate position to earn much more than a average salary. Yet our family car is a 2005 10k infinity fx35. Car is reliable and modern enough. A perfect fit for my family of 4. I considered buying a 80k Tesla model X, but went for a 15 year old Ferrari f430 (same price). Still have the practically and a lot of extra fun. I never understood why people would buy a car younger than 15 years old.

Safety features.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#290

Post by [deleted] »

usaphp wrote: post #218
kajecounterhack wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New prices are quite prohibitive but the state of things actually isn't the worst for used EVs if you can stomach low range. My family does a two-car approach: 1. Hybrid SUV for actually getting places and moving things 2. ~$4k a used 2013 Smart car. ~45 mile range is good enough for short commute, grocery runs, etc. Charge at home or at work (we have the uncommon situation of no charging at home since we live in a c…

$4k for a 2013 smart? You got some amazing deal, they usually sell for twice that amount. Hard to find any decent one for less than $7-8k

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