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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#241

Post by Hamuko »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #141
foepys wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

It would be interesting to see an EV design that's appropriate for the Third World.

Honda Super Cub with a battery.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#242

Post by rubicon33 »

fassssst wrote: post #102
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

I'll never understand this. You presumably are biking on the street, at best in a bike lane, at worst in the shoulder, and are placing so much confidence in other people to not hit you.

Given how SHIT other people are at driving, I have no desire whatsoever to be on a bicycle in front of them.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#243

Post by rconti »

I've been following the id.4 release with moderate interest. I previously had a 2016 Golf R 6 speed manual, and now have a 2018 Tesla Model 3.

IMO, the VW is just too expensive. Now, if you're getting the tax credit on the VW, and of course can't get it on a Tesla anymore, that makes the difference. But without the credit, the id4 is virtually the price of an AWD Model Y. For a vehicle that doesn't have AWD, has a ton less power, is significantly slower, less range, and no supercharger access.

Now, those aren't awful hits against a tax-credit-fueled $10k savings (or whatever). But I don't think it's close to there yet.

There are a lot of weird things from the reviews I've seen, too. Spotty voice recognition, "free" charging requires you to use a fiddly phone app, the car only has 2 window switches and requires that you toggle between front and rear with a 3rd button (wtf), and the Nav system is awful and routes you to chargepoint (ultra slow) chargers on a roadtrip, vs DC fast chargers.

So much of this can be changed in software, and maybe VW will drop the price when the tax credits go away, the same way Tesla did.

But, it just seems like far too little car for the money.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#244

Post by Elora »

tzs wrote: post #90
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

I'd definitely like my next car to be electric, and to be an SUV, and I don't want it to be cost much more than a fairly basic configured Honda CR-V. 2021 CR-Vs start at about $26k. My current car is a 2006 CR-V with about 80k miles on it. It's in good shape and I drive less than 1200 miles/year so should be able to stick with it it for a long time. My plan is to keep driving my CR-V until: (1) an electric SUV compar…

1200 miles/year is an atypical use case for a vehicle in the US and your options can be anything, including many older cars, and also possibly human-powered transport and/or electric-powered scooters/bikes/skateboards. We have a '12 CR-V w/ 120k miles which right now is doing standby vehicle duty, our Tesla Model 3 takes all the miles (15-20k/year).

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#245

Post by petre »

Hamuko wrote: post #216
RamRodification wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are being a bit overly negative but you do have a point. Where I live (northern Europe) I could never get by with any kind of "open" vehicle (i need a roof and heating) and snow tyres.

You can get snow tyres fitted on a bicycle (I had some as a youth) but bicycles are still quite horrible in the winter. I remember biking home from school during the winter when it was snowing heavily. The sidewalks were completely snowed in with heavy snow so the bike just really went where it wanted to go and very slowly. I eventually decided to move over to the road but I was soon tailgated by a bus. Since the bus…

Yes bikes are nice and fun until you have a familiy that aren't hippies. Also hippies prefer warmer climates and home schooling. I wonder why. We've got quite a few bikes. Never use them during winter. Winter means snow and sub zero temperatures. I'd rather nordic walk instead. Not in the city breathing fumes, of course. I would ride my bike most of the time once cars or vehicles that spew fumes and turn you into roadkill are taken off the roads either by legislation, environmentalist militias or apocalypse.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#246

Post by mikestew »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #222
mikestew wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, oh, I can answer this, given ownership of a ten year old Leaf ($35K) and a fifteen year old Scion xB/rebadged Toyota Echo ($20K): the $20K car is still going to win in TCO. Because the Leaf already starts out $15K in the hole. That's a lot of oil and coolant changes. That's a lot of brake pads. And those are pretty much the three things an ICE needs done versus BEV. After 100K miles, the Scion needed a $1500 clut…

You left out the very important and difference making cost of gasoline. Which over 10 years of driving would more than make up the difference in cost.

You're paying for that difference upfront, however. Is gasoline in the U. S. likely to go up faster than the, say, S&P 500, where one could put that extra $15K until it's time to buy more gasoline? Historical data say "no". Gas was $3-$4/gallon when I moved to Seattle 20 years ago, and it continues to stay between $3-$4.

There's lots to like about electric cars (again, so much so that I'll never buy another ICE), but IMO any cost savings is going to be pretty far down the list. After ten years of EV ownership, I'd almost pay the difference in price so I never, ever have to go out of my way to visit a gas station again. Man, what a hassle that is once out of the habit. But EVs are just generally better vehicles that make an ICE seem like the rattling, primitive contraption that it is. That doesn't sell cars because one needs to own an EV to realize that. So to get folks to the ownership, we tell them it'll save money on gas. Which is technically true, but not the reason to buy EVs.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#247

Post by Phenomenit »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

>and blackmail buyers with missing basic features accordingly

It's what VW does best!

Remember that the first car looked like horse wagon and did for quite a while. The same can be said about the infrastructure as well.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#248

Post by nawitus »

akomtu wrote: post #130
cjblomqvist wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "problem" in the US is the cheap gas, at least compared to EU. Taxing gas according to the CO2 cost would make it drastically different in TCO.

Half of the US population lives paycheck to paycheck and they need cars. I'm not sure their minimum wage can afford them carbon taxes.

Poorer countries in Europe tax fuel more. If you raise fuel tax, people will find ways to buy less fuel. Generally this means more efficient (often smaller) cars, and perhaps prioritizing living more near to jobs etc.

The main problem is that fuel tax should be increased slowly so people can change their consumption accordingly.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#249

Post by Tagbert »

outside1234 wrote: post #196
cameldrv wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designing an electric car has a lot of different design tradeoffs than a gas car, so cars that are designed from the ground up as electric are going to perform better than gas cars that are electrified. The biggest two factors are that the battery is large and heavy, but is flexible in the shape it assumes. For good handling, you'd like to have this weight as low on the car as possible, and close to the center. The a…

But Tesla's cars are exactly this - they are largely gas sedans that look normal and are electric. People don't want some dorky looking electric car like Volkswagen's or BMW's. They want a normal car that's electric.

Teslas are not “gas sedans”. They are purpose built EVs. They are sedans and are one of the few sedans that are still selling. Most other manufacturers had seen their sedan market evaporate to the point that they have dropped those models entirely.

Since the current EV market is still very small, manufacturers target the most popular body style to maximize their sales. That is currently an SUV/CUV in the US and in many markets. It is to be hoped that, once the EV market gets large enough, there will be room for different body styles such as sedans or smaller hatches. Personally, I would prefer something closer to the ID.3 but that is not something I expect to see in the US any time soon.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#250

Post by [deleted] »

rubicon33 wrote: post #242
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

I'll never understand this. You presumably are biking on the street, at best in a bike lane, at worst in the shoulder, and are placing so much confidence in other people to not hit you. Given how SHIT other people are at driving, I have no desire whatsoever to be on a bicycle in front of them.

[deleted]
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