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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#211

Post by Ekaros »

foepys wrote: post #71
CameronNemo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

People buying cars for $20,000 are generally not people who can invest twice upfront for lower maintenance costs over the next ten years. Being poor (relatively speaking) is expensive, especially when you are financing.

Also 20k buys lot of maintenance, and gas. I wonder if at that price difference the maintenance and gas even is cheaper. Ofc, depends on driven distance, but still.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#212

Post by clouddrover »

Animats wrote: post #172

But you'll have to be patient; it's still two years away. No, they did not launch their first all-electric SUV. They announced it. There's a difference. [EDIT] Sorry, that's the "ID Buzz." A "people carrier in the spirit of the old Volkswagen microbus."

They're delivering ID.4s across the world now. It's currently the third best selling EV in Norway for 2021:

https://elbilstatistikk.no/

It may end up being the best selling model in Norway this year. The Audi e-tron (which is also a Volkswagen SUV) was the best selling EV in Norway in 2020.

Other VW SUVs which will be delivered this year are the Skoda Enyaq (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqdByCvnNQA) and the Audi Q4 e-tron (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ihZXQIlpRM).

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#213

Post by RamRodification »

Koshkin wrote: post #112
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

Yeah, California is one of the very few places on Earth where you can do that.

I think you are being a bit overly negative but you do have a point. Where I live (northern Europe) I could never get by with any kind of "open" vehicle (i need a roof and heating) and snow tyres.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#214

Post by CalChris »

anticristi wrote: post #202
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

This. I made a business case for keeping my old car or buying a similarly-sized electric one. No matter how high the downtime cost, my old beaten up car wins financially. Feels like electric cars are still designed to "signal greenness" and not actually save the planet.

That’s true for any car, regardless whether the new car is an EV or not.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#215

Post by theshrike79 »

edhelas wrote: post #39

SUV…

SUV is the easiest platform for EVs, sadly.

1) add layer of batteries 2) add wheels to battery base 3) slap on some fancy stuff

Ta-dah! An EV SUV.

No need to plan where the batteries need to go to keep the car looking like a car.

If you want a "budget" EV that looks like a car and not a building on wheels, your only options are pretty much the Hyundai Ioniq and Tesla Model 3. The rest are 100k+ premium cars (Model S, Porsche Taycan etc).

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#216

Post by Hamuko »

RamRodification wrote: post #213
Koshkin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, California is one of the very few places on Earth where you can do that.

I think you are being a bit overly negative but you do have a point. Where I live (northern Europe) I could never get by with any kind of "open" vehicle (i need a roof and heating) and snow tyres.

You can get snow tyres fitted on a bicycle (I had some as a youth) but bicycles are still quite horrible in the winter.

I remember biking home from school during the winter when it was snowing heavily. The sidewalks were completely snowed in with heavy snow so the bike just really went where it wanted to go and very slowly. I eventually decided to move over to the road but I was soon tailgated by a bus. Since the bus was honking at me, I had to pull over to the next bus stop to get him out of my ass. I think it was about at that moment that I decided to ditch winter biking once I could own a car.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#217

Post by Tagbert »

CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #166
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

I’m not sure the larger batteries are even necessary. With an EV you can start each day fully charged. You just need enough battery to handle your daily commute and the few errands. What’s missing is something to handle those few occasions when you need to drive that extra distance. It seems kind of silly to try and cram that extra flexibility into the same vehicle.

It’s partly about convincing new buyers to be comfortable with them. Buyers are not fully rational and will often overestimate their need for long range and will overvalue the anxiety of needing to charge. Short range cars are seen as to much risk even if the price is lower.

Once enough people have some experience with EVs and the market grows enough, there will be more interest and a demand for cars with a limited range at a cheaper price point.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#218

Post by usaphp »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #122
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

New prices are quite prohibitive but the state of things actually isn't the worst for used EVs if you can stomach low range. My family does a two-car approach: 1. Hybrid SUV for actually getting places and moving things 2. ~$4k a used 2013 Smart car. ~45 mile range is good enough for short commute, grocery runs, etc. Charge at home or at work (we have the uncommon situation of no charging at home since we live in a c…

$4k for a 2013 smart? You got some amazing deal, they usually sell for twice that amount. Hard to find any decent one for less than $7-8k

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#219

Post by jeffbee »

bognition wrote: post #177

Here is a great no frills review of the ID.4 https://youtu.be/3oC9sUiwyL8 The TL;DR is even if its electric its not a serious competitor to tesla. The UI is terrible as the drive is unable to find a charger while navigating to their destination. Electric car charging stations are going to look completely different the gas stations as they costs a few thousand dollars to install rather than a cool million for a gas st…

id.4 comes with Android Auto and CarPlay compatibility. You'd be a fool to rely on the OEM tech.

Tesla loses big in this regard because they don't offer either and their built-in tech is garbage.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#220

Post by internet2000 »

outside1234 wrote: post #196
cameldrv wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designing an electric car has a lot of different design tradeoffs than a gas car, so cars that are designed from the ground up as electric are going to perform better than gas cars that are electrified. The biggest two factors are that the battery is large and heavy, but is flexible in the shape it assumes. For good handling, you'd like to have this weight as low on the car as possible, and close to the center. The a…

But Tesla's cars are exactly this - they are largely gas sedans that look normal and are electric. People don't want some dorky looking electric car like Volkswagen's or BMW's. They want a normal car that's electric.

You forget all the handwringing over the fake grill-less nose when the Model 3 came out.
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