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First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

bbc.com

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Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#281

Post by krona »

learc83 wrote: post #208
krona wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems almost impossible that the vaccines pose a greater risk than the risk of not using them. How about to a baby, or an unborn baby? The relative risk is almost certainly higher to a baby, but how high? We don't know, since there haven't been any longitudinal studies (for starters.) Which is why it would be unethical outside a clinical trial to administer it to younger people en masse. Eventually the relative…

It was less than a year before people started reporting it, and it took less than 2 years before a study was released by the Swedish health agency warning of increased narcolepsy risk in Children--not 4. Also the increased rate of narcolepsy was 0.005%. That's why it took several months before anyone noticed it. Additionally the flu itself can cause the same kind of narcolepsy, which means that this vaccine was worse…

> but still potentially better than no vaccine at all.

There's no 'potentially' to consider, the Swedish Medical Products Agency reported the relative risk in 2011:

... The relative risk of narcolepsy was four times higher in vaccinated children and adolescents (born from 1990) compared to unvaccinated individuals.

So, incorrect, when considering the relative risk, which is all people should be interested in. Catching bird flu/covid isn't inevitable for most people, far from it in fact.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#282

Post by bserge »

ceejayoz wrote: post #277
bserge wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only hope so. They could very well outsource it to the usual transportation companies, and there isn't much accountability tbh. Oh well, if this one doesn't work, perhaps we can try again with the Oxford vaccine heh

It travels in purpose-built shipping containers, so it shouldn't really matter what the trucker does. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-distributi... > In order to get around that, Pfizer has developed specially built deep-freeze "suitcases" that can be tightly sealed and shipped even in non-refrigerated trucks. https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-designed-n... indicates they can hold te…

Oh, very interesting. I'm mostly worried about last mile distribution, but yeah, they're not stupid, they took all the necessary measures.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#283

Post by amanaplanacanal »

barry-cotter wrote: post #67
csjr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! I was thinking about this recently. How the politicians have failed to implement such simple policies?

Blame the World Health Organization. > Countries may gain time in the short-term as they limit travel to fight the new coronavirus pandemic, but the World Health Organization thinks overall that “it doesn't help to restrict movement," a top adviser to the U.N. health agency's chief said Thursday. https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/world-health-organizatio...

It probably depends on when you do it too. If it’s already widespread in your population, closing borders isn’t going to help much.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#284

Post by rconti »

bluGill wrote: post #203
akmarinov wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US vaccination plan has vaccinating non-essential (read average) people starting at around May-June, so no way it happens in March. Doctors, the elderly and other more at risk groups will get it before that.

The plans are expect to change as/if other vaccines become available. If the other vaccines in the pipeline get approved on the expected best case schedule we will be vaccinating anyone who wants it starting march. If there are unexpected issues things could take longer (the UK could still discover something and withdraw Pfizers' approval as a worst case)

I thought we were constrained by supply chain issues? Even if a vaccine was approved that didn't require ultra-low temperature storage, we need glass vials, etc.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#285

Post by natex »

J-dawg wrote: post #266
natex wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concerns are not being "simply dismissed". You just didn't take the time to read any of the material. "JCVI recognises that the MHRA’s advice is based on the absence of evidence in pregnancy, and not on the presence of evidence to implicate toxicity in pregnancy." It's all laid out for anyone with true concerns. Here you go: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Thanks for that. And you're right, I hadn't seen that document before. But concerns absolutely are being dismissed. I've personally listened to Matt Hancock and other ministers doing it. The idea that someone might want to wait just a little longer to see if any side effects emerge is not necessarily irrational. Would you not concede that, if and when any unexpected side-effects do emerge (however rare or insignifica…

> The idea that someone might want to wait just a little longer to see if any side effects emerge is not necessarily irrational.

In general, yes it is irrational. There is evidence that the benefits of vaccines (including this one) far outweigh the risks of side effects.

> Would you not concede that, if and when any unexpected side-effects do emerge (however rare or insignificant), this gung-ho attitude will backfire?

Sorry, but no, this is wildly irrational. Why are rare and insignificant side effects concerning when the lives of more than 60,000 people in the UK have already ended due to this virus?

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#287

Post by chosenbreed37 »

ulfw wrote: post #253
dm319 wrote: post #180

I work here and was in clinic this morning. We had three eligible patients. One consented to it and is having the vaccine now. The other two declined. Not making a point, just a data point.

If they don't want it, I'm more than happy to fly to the UK to get it. Hong Kong doesn't seem to want to vaccinate most people before 2022 https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/artic...

Wow.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#288

Post by KingMachiavelli »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #168
timrichard wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing this post reminded me that when I had the 'flu vaccine a little while back, the Pharmacist advised avoiding Paracetamol (Tylenol?) afterwards in case it reduced the efficacy of the vaccine. A bit of quick Googling turned up study results from a while back suggesting this in relation to childhood vaccines. Just wondering if anyone here with experience in the field has a opinion on whether painkillers like these…

Honestly Tylenol is a really fucky one, I've had it once when I was in the US and it got me off my tits. I mean pardon my french but that stuff is something else. And in a lot of cases gratuitous; at best it takes the edge off, for me personally, some paracetamol has the same effect without the side effects of an inability to drive or operate heavy machinery.

It's possible you had a Tylenol 3 or 4 (or 1,2) which are paracetamol + codeine. Not the strongest painkiller but more than anything OTC.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#289

Post by nkohari »

refurb wrote: post #120
cpfohl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adjuvants in modern vaccines are extraordinarily well studied and safe. Current side effects include 6-24 hours of feeling totally crappy. Still beats Covid-19...

But the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have no "adjuvants". What are you getting at?

They don't have adjuvants, but they do have lipid nanoparticles which allow the mRNA to breach cells. It's feasible that they could cause unexpected side effects.

NB: I'm personally going to get the first SARS-CoV-2 vaccine I can get, and I'm incredibly excited about mRNA vaccines in general. But, it's true that any time you inject a chemical into your bloodstream you're taking a calculated risk.

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