Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#281

Post by DenisM » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

nrmitchi wrote: post #33

I'll give you that, but it seems like a much simpler solution would have just been improving the flexibility for an H1B worker to be allowed to work at any employer for the term of their status. If an employer used an H1B in order to hire a foreign worker and then under pay them, the worker would just get another job that pays market rate, without the work status concern. Without the artificial control over the emplo…

I vaguely recall that the "indentured" h1b workers (as oppose to the "proper" h1b like I had) owe money back to home, and that debt becomes instantly due if they bail out.

If they were super-stars they would be able to cover it from the Amazon signup bonus (and become indentured to Amazon - your signup bonus is due back if you bail out early). However superstars rarely end up in those jobs. We're looking at people with kinda average engineering skills, poor understanding of the American culture, no connections, and grim determination to grind their way out of their old life.

Liberating the indentured h1b workers is not just flipping a legal switch, it's a cultural integration project.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#282

Post by jacobr1 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:15 PM UTC

flurben wrote: post #244

sushshshsh wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely speculate that this requirement was made to block many good candidates. After all, the point of a visa system is to constrict the pool of potential candidates anyway.

nonsense. The point of a visa system is to expand the domestic labor pool.

The point of any given set of rules is to balance both objectives: expand the domestic labor pool, but also avoid undercutting local labor. As with any political process, the incentives and power-block dynamics shift the line over time in different directions.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#283

Post by zerr » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:15 PM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #98

notJim wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The H1B program has been abused for a long time What's the abuse?

"Body shops" like Infosys and Tata Consulting that import thousands of H1Bs under borderline fraudulent applications, and then underpay these employees. Just a random link, but the contours of the problem: https://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-pr...

50k-60k is pretty normal in many places in US. Were they bringing staff in SF or NYC?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#284

Post by sushshshsh » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #229

sushshshsh wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely speculate that this requirement was made to block many good candidates. After all, the point of a visa system is to constrict the pool of potential candidates anyway.

Simple. List multiple jobs requiring "electrical engineer" or "data scientist" and pool all applicants together for a single position.

Hehehe... I like this solution. I'm an American citizen, my wife was on H1B and now we're in the middle of transfering her to a green card. This process is designed to make immigrants' lives hard, as far as I can tell.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#285

Post by rjsw » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #220

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #189

Overall, I really support these changes. However, this piece really struck me as a big mistake: "Under the changes, an applicant must have a college degree in the specific field in which he or she is looking to work. A software developer, for example, wouldn’t be awarded an H-1B visa if that person has a degree in electrical engineering." Some of the best software engineers I know are graduate degree holders from neu…

That's going to be interesting for people who studied humanities. In banking, you have even more diverse backgrounds than software development.

Is there a shortage of bankers in the US ?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#286

Post by notJim » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #216

notJim wrote: post #67

The new rule is that H1B workers need to earn higher salaries relative to the distribution of salaries in their profession. The worker must make the 45th percentile wage, where previously it was 17th. Won't this primarily hurt people early in their career, or does it also take into account experience level?

I think this is by design. You don't want to issue visas to "people early in their career" - those jobs should go to Americans first. You only hire from abroad if there really is a shortage of specialists in some profession, and you want those professionals to prove their worth in their home country first, before allowing them to the US.

Ahh, I see. There's a logic to it, but I really don't agree with this zero-sum mindset. The tech sector is one of the few where the US is (arguably) a leader, and it seems like we will all benefit in the long run if the most talented people in the world build their careers here. It seems like there must be a better way to ensure that native workers are not harmed by it, such as collective bargaining.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#287

Post by ajsnigrutin » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

dartdartdart wrote: post #212

jzymbaluk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right. The answer that's best for the economy is to allow more immigration, not less (especially skilled immigration). This move will just make it more dificult for the average company to sponsor H1B workers

I agree, American is built on the hard work of immigrants. We need to allow more immigrants, especially highly skilled workers

Don't you have high unemployment at the moment?

The right solution would be, to require high wages for H1B visas - if you're hiring a developer, the minimum wage for the H1B worker should be (eg.) 1.5x average developer wage in that area/state. This would solve companies firing local workers and replacing then with H1B workers, and still solve the problem of a company 'really needing' that one worker.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#288

Post by tardismechanic » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:17 PM UTC

Cherian_Abraham wrote: post #117

“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” This is really bad. Families are going to get told to leave. I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong.

Many of them aren’t white though. So shouldn’t matter as much right? /s

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#289

Post by sushshshsh » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:17 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #255

sushshshsh wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely speculate that this requirement was made to block many good candidates. After all, the point of a visa system is to constrict the pool of potential candidates anyway.

> After all, the point of a visa system is to constrict the pool of potential candidates anyway. No, that's not the point. If that's what you wanted to achieve then you'd be best off not having any visa system. So obviously this is not what they're optimising for.

You mean, if you wanted to constrict international immigrants you would block all immigrants from coming here. If there was no visa system, then companies would be free to hire whoever they wanted.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#290

Post by belltaco » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #261

belltaco wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is also a particularly terrible move: >“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” Copying from my comment below, this is likely to backfire. Since remote work has become acceptable and they already know the ins and outs of the job, many of these folks losing their…

> Since remote work has become acceptable and they already know the ins and outs of the job, many of these folks losing their visa will just be allowed to work remotely from India. This means the US economy will lose all the taxes and local expenditure in the economy like rent, food, travel, vacations, utilities, cars, home sales, etc. etc. And if that works out, the next hire may just be directly hired in India itse…

>There's a big assumption in "Since remote work has become acceptable". Some companies are talking about making things permanent, others are already trying to get people back in the office.

It costs companies a lot both monetarily and in time/effort to advertise job postings, get applications, schedule interviews ,hire someone new to do the same job, train them and get them set up and acclimatized until they become productive. If they can still have them working that'd be a big boon for them. Of course this won't happen for all jobs, but is likely to apply to a large fraction.

Someone making a conscious decision to hire in another country takes a lot of effort, but an existing productive employee who is already working 100% remotely for the past 6+ months asking if they could work in Canada or India till the uncertainty around the election is resolved will definitely have a good chance.