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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#281

Post by franklampard »

jaekash wrote: post #161
magicsmoke wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. Unlike the cold war days, there's no race to convert countries to Communism or Democracy. China's main mode of interaction with other countries is through trade, it doesn't play the game of political/ideological proselytism. If democracy loses ground around the world, that's due more to it's own…

> Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. If it was not for china North Korea and possibly Pakistan would not have had nuclear weapons now. So no, it is not just in it's own borders.

Source?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#282

Post by gspr »

einpoklum wrote: post #278
gspr wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Proper civil society and human rights" - like the ones afforded to Julian Assange? Or the treatment of the Grenfell tower victims' families? Now imagine a society where every dissident is treated like Assange, and every poor nobody is treated like the Grenfell tower residents. And with no recourse. And no free media to spread the outrage. And no reasonable expectation of privacy to even discuss the matter privatel…

> Now imagine a society where every dissident is treated like Assange, and every poor nobody is treated like the Grenfell tower residents The British colonies over the years? Possibly Britain itself as far as the treatment of poor nobodies. Look, China's a repressive regime, but: (1.) A bit less so than it's described by Western media, and (2.) Britain and the US are not categorically different, they're just, well, d…

> The British colonies over the years?

Sure. I don't see anyone here defending that in this thread.

> Possibly Britain itself as far as the treatment of poor nobodies.

Currently? Are you serious?

> Look, China's a repressive regime, but: (1.) A bit less so than it's described by Western media,

"Western media" is such a large set as to be meaningless. If you mean the mainstream media, please provide an example of two of where they claim China is more oppressive than it actually is.

> and (2.) Britain and the US are not categorically different, they're just, well, different in the contexts and degrees in which they oppress more and less.

No. There is a categorical difference between being democracies with major flaws and being a totalitarian state, between having real struggles in their open and adversarial justice systems and having arbitrary arrests as the norm, between abhorrent detention of immigrants and outright concentration camps based on ethnicity.

Placing the dystopian hellhole that is China in the same category as Western democracies is an affront to those that suffer under CCP rule and highly unproductive with regards to fixing the serious problems we have at home.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#283

Post by sudosysgen »

jaekash wrote: post #37
mytailorisrich wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether China liberalise is a red herring. This is a geopolitical clash of power. It's not about respective political regimes, it's about relative power and influence. If China liberalises tomorrow none of the fundamental issues will change and China will still be a threat to the US. The only thing that will change is that the US will have to find something else in order to label China 'evil'.

> If China liberalises tomorrow none of the fundamental issues will change and China will still be a threat to the US. The only thing that will change is that the US will have to find something else in order to label China 'evil'. Cite please. And won't the best way to debunk the "propaganda" be to just liberalize right? So ... everybody is waiting and has been waiting for decades, China should stop making excuses an…

The US destroyed Iranian democracy and replaced it by the Shah, a brutal autocratic leader whose abuse of power and violation of human rights led to the rise of the current far-right Islamic theocracy : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

The US destroyed Bolivia, replacing an elected government that was legally found to be allowed to run, with a far-right nationalist military-backed junta that refuses to hold elections : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Bolivian_political_crisis

The US installed a brutal dictator in Chile, with the coup killing the legitimately elected president and overthrowing the liberal democracy, replacing it with dictatorship : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

No, it is entirely clear to anyone in the world that the US will destroy your country and kill you if you oppose, no matter how liberal it is, if it suits their geopolitical interests.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#285

Post by GuiA »

dang wrote: post #249
dang wrote: post #242

All: HN has been seeing a dismaying increase in nationalistic flamewar. This is not allowed here. I know it feels important when you're caught up in the intensity of such feelings, but it is not interesting , which is what HN is for. Worse, it has the effect on interesting discussion that tank battles have on a city park. If you don't have something thoughtful and substantive to say, please don't post until you do. D…

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place. That way we can collapse it and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of thread.

Attempts to build constructive conversations in these threads are almost always met with heavy flagging/downvoting. My own personal experience is that any comment that isn’t 100% backing the CCP falls to a negative score in a matter of minutes. Sometimes it goes back to 0/1 over the following hours, sometimes not. I’ve been on HN almost 10 years and that’s almost always been true, but it’s gotten much worse in recent years. Speaking to others, I know I’m not alone.

The standard mod answer is that you all are aware of voting rings and there’s no CCP astroturfing on HN, but many regular users feel like that’s not the case, so clearly there’s a disconnect here.

Edit: lol at this comment being -1 minutes after posting it

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#286

Post by dicomdan »

dang wrote: post #249
dang wrote: post #242

All: HN has been seeing a dismaying increase in nationalistic flamewar. This is not allowed here. I know it feels important when you're caught up in the intensity of such feelings, but it is not interesting , which is what HN is for. Worse, it has the effect on interesting discussion that tank battles have on a city park. If you don't have something thoughtful and substantive to say, please don't post until you do. D…

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place. That way we can collapse it and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of thread.

Can you present evidence of moderation not having a one sided bias? Every time I see anything critical of the US / Europe / Canada and other liberal democracies it's sitting at the top, no matter how unsubstantiated. While every time there's anything that puts CCP in a bad light there's strong moderation because it's "not interesting" (even though this particular event is objectively very noteworthy in tech world and beyond).

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#287

Post by dang »

jaekash wrote: post #152

And we already know China has been backdooring other equipment: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... So yes, this is a small victory in a massive war.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23831415.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#288

Post by sudosysgen »

est31 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #2

The China-US tensions are not going to get better, and, in fact, will get worse as years go by. More and more nations will be forced to choose sides. It's not good and I'm not sure what a resolution even looks like.

A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. They'd want to expand just as they want to expand now. Just look at the various western colonial empires of history. Many of them were democracies in some form or fashion. Any long term resolution to the conflict has t…

What is the solution for totalitarianism? Destruction of the country, plunging millions into poverty, for it to be replaced by a sham democracy where all the levers of power are behind US interests? How did that work out in Iraq?

If you want China to stop being totalitarian, then you should wait until most Chinese citizens decide that they don't approve of the ruling party, and then let them decide what to replace it with. You cannot force democracy.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#289

Post by dang »

Waterfall wrote: post #100
3PercentMan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough of your nonsense. You don't have the higher moral grounds when it comes to human rights. How many Muslims have been killed during the wars in the middle east? Stop smoking crack already and getting high on koolaid.

1RMB has been deposited into your bank account

Please don't do this here.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#290

Post by dang »

3PercentMan wrote: post #77
room271 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's just a China-US thing. I think Europe will increasingly find itself taking a role. India too. To clarify, while US-China superficially seem like the 'sides'. Really, what I think is happening is that the values of many (especially Western) countries around human rights, democracy, freedom of religion and expression, are coming into conflict with a new kind of Chinese authoritarianism that really doe…

Enough of your nonsense. You don't have the higher moral grounds when it comes to human rights. How many Muslims have been killed during the wars in the middle east? Stop smoking crack already and getting high on koolaid.

Hey, please don't break the site guidelines like this. We ban account that do that.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.

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