Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

daringfireball.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 340 posts

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#281

Post by no_wizard »

jakobegger wrote: post #128
habosa wrote: post #41

I tried to do a Sign in with Apple integration on Android (wanted the app to have the same options across platforms). Testing on Android was next to impossible. To test I needed an Apple ID with 2FA. But SMS 2FA was not good enough, you need the hardware-based 2FA. To get that you need a recent macOS or iOS device. As an Android developer I have no reason to own either of those. Eventually I just had a friend who own…

> To test I needed an Apple ID with 2FA. Apple make it such a pain in the ass to get Apple IDs. For example, they block emails from small domains. So I can't use my company email address to get an apple ID.... and I found that out by googling cryptic error messages, they don't even tell you. They don't want you to have multiple Apple IDs, so you need to store the credentials of your main Apple ID on your build server…

You should be using this:

https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-business-manager/what-...

https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-business-manager/creat...

Not the consumer Apple IDs. This lets you programically generate the Apple IDs (you can even set permissions on them).

Works great.

Not that they've made it straightforward to make it explicit who should use what, or anything, but they do have solutions for this. It also has other perks (like being able manage distribution of your app)

To be fair to anyone, the Developer Documentation does not talk one bit about this, at all, as a solution.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#282

Post by oneplane »

dcolkitt wrote: post #112
ehsankia wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple continues to not give any care whatsoever to anything outside their walled garden. For the longest time you couldn't even preview songs on iTunes store without having iTunes. Want to watch their biggest WWDC live? Had to use Safari until last year. Obviously iMessage and FaceTime are complete no-gos outside their walled garden too. This is how they keep people in. They have to close down their walls as tightly…

Isn't this kind of in the DNA of the company? Even going back to its first decade, what distinguished Apple from other early PC companies was that its O/S was only meant to run on its hardware, and its hardware was only meant to run its O/S. This obviously didn't work out for it in the late 80's and 90's. But its fortunes changed by the mobile device era. One challenge of this model is that you have to maintain execu…

Ironically it didn't work out both ways: for a short time you could run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware, licensed and stuff, but all it did was hurt hardware sales while not making enough money to cover software engineering for the OS. Then again, a ton of stuff went bad for Apple at that time.

NeXT on the other hand was always intended to run on diverse architectures, not sure on the timeline vs. Windows NT, which had the same model (with the HAL, multiple kernels etc.). It's pretty sad to see that go away, but it also makes total sense; modularity and USP-as-a-service doesn't pay off and doesn't make users (the mass of them) happy. Loosely coupled but highly cohesive systems work best, it's why classic Mac OS completely failed in at the end of its life, and why all the other projects at Apple were a dead end compared to the *nix projects (and of course buying NeXT). It's also why NT worked, and why at some levels Android fails miserably. (but Google notices and started to fix the cohesion issue at the OS level with Android One and their patching methods vs. complete monolithic OS upgrades which then needs vendors to back port)

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#283

Post by Klonoar »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #187
pcl wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SMS 2FA was not good enough, you need the hardware-based 2FA OT, but Apple is doing the right thing here: SMS is not a robust 2FA solution. A recent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22016212

Their approach is still ridiculous. I once tried to log into a brand new iOS device in a shop, and has unpleasantly learned that I absolutely can't log in using my regular Apple ID, cause, you know, they are showing a popup with code on my Mac which is 50km away.

That's... how 2FA sans texting works in the Apple ecosystem, yes. It's working as designed.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#284

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

espadrine wrote: post #92
reaperducer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wanted the app to have the same options across platforms I guess this is the part I don't understand. How did you plan to test across platforms if you don't have an iOS device with which to test?

I don’t know the author, but in a typical company, a project that is meant to work on iOS and Android will be dispatched to separate teams. In this case, the author might be part of the Android team, instructed to make Sign in with Apple work on Android, and they may not even be in the same physical location as the iOS team.

>In a typical company, a project that is meant to work on iOS and Android will be dispatched to separate teams

Truth. And why cross platform tools like React and Flutter are just getting more popular.

I’m right in the middle of making that choice right now. But it’s definitely clear I can’t support true native apps.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#285

Post by TurningCanadian »

rootusrootus wrote: post #243
noelsusman wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage has done more to hold back messaging in the US than anything else. Even if Google was competent at messaging it wouldn't matter because iOS users wouldn't switch and Apple refuses to open up iMessage to non-Apple devices. I'm still using SMS for most of my messaging, and I primarily blame Apple for that.

Are you asking for Apple to pay for infrastructure for non-customers to use? Or even further, that Apple design and support an Android iMessage app?

Google's messenger apps work on iOS..

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#286

Post by jgeerts »

tusharsoni wrote: post #99

Developer of a recently launched app with Sign in with Apple here. I watched the keynote where they launched Sign in with Apple and was honestly surprised at how easy the implementation was. I thought it was a no-brainer to add it to my app. So, I follow their (severely lacking) docs and the keynote and get a solution working. Once the user logs in, their APIs hand you a token that you can then send to the server. Th…

They didn't include more information because they implemented the OpenID Connect specification which is awesome. That means that you can use any OIDC library and it will work for Apple, even verifying the keys. If you want to know more you should read up on OAuth2/OIDC/JWKS.

Apple's public key can be found here.

https://appleid.apple.com/auth/keys

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#287

Post by e_y_ »

oneplane wrote: post #233
StavrosK wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's talking about the fact that iMessage only runs on Apple hardware. That's what a walled garden is.

iMessage with macOS works fine on non-Apple hardware. Perhaps you intended to write iOS and the iOS version of iMessage only runs on Apple hardware? Or was it more a point of legality? Or end-user acceptance? Or availability to the general public?

Sure, you can climb in and out of a walled garden with a grappling hook, but that's not really the point.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#288

Post by vvG94KbDUtRa »

toasterlovin wrote: post #163
Tepix wrote: post #118

As a user, won't i a) share my data with Apple (i.e. they get to know every time i sign in) and b) makes me dependent on Apple (what happens to my account when i sell all my Apple devices?) ?

> a) share my data with Apple (i.e. they get to know every time i sign in) They're only requiring this when there are other social login options available. It's not a bid to get access to your private information. It's designed to make it so you're not forced to share your information with Google/FB/Twitter. This existing is strictly better for users.

Ummm it's also strictly better for apple. They do get to know every time you sign in, instead of another company getting that. It's certainly not better for users than creating a separate account tied to a separate email for every service without a big company in between.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#289

Post by Marsymars »

bloody-crow wrote: post #172
jakobegger wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To test I needed an Apple ID with 2FA. Apple make it such a pain in the ass to get Apple IDs. For example, they block emails from small domains. So I can't use my company email address to get an apple ID.... and I found that out by googling cryptic error messages, they don't even tell you. They don't want you to have multiple Apple IDs, so you need to store the credentials of your main Apple ID on your build server…

This is news to me. My apple ID is on my personal domain (Google Apps) with only one email address on it, and it works fine. Could it be a recent change?

In my experience it's randomly prohibited by some algorithm.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#290

Post by Marsymars »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #188
bloody-crow wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is news to me. My apple ID is on my personal domain (Google Apps) with only one email address on it, and it works fine. Could it be a recent change?

About 6 months ago I was unable to use my email on a personal domain to create an Apple ID. I had to create an @icloud.com address. And I don't think it's an issue with my domain, it's been fine for the last 9 years.

FYI you can normally change the email on an Apple ID after creation, without the domain restrictions that are present for initial creation.
Post reply on HN