Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

headcrashing.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 526 posts

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#281

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #263
scarface74 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eclipse was slow and had the usual non native Java smell that all cross platform GUIs have - especially on computers back then. But even now, Eclipse is sluggish compared to Visual Studio.

Visual Studio doesn't run on UNIX, nor mainframes.

Even Visual Studio Code is more performant than Eclipse and you can create a Linux distributable of .Net and deploy to Linux from Visual Studio.

And before you say there are non Linux mainframes. Yeah I know - another dead end technology along with .Net framework and C++/CLI.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#282

Post by pron »

scarface74 wrote: post #126
pjmlp wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of them have a lot of work to catch up with 25 years of market experience.

Because development that happened in 1994 is really relevant today. How will these languages ever catch up with innovations like JavaBeans, Java Server Pages, and Java Server Faces?

They are far from catching up on compilation, GC and low-overhead observability technology. Those developments didn't happen in 1994; they have been happening continuously over the past 25 year (e.g., in the past few years we've seen ZGC, JFR and Graal), where Java is still far ahead of the pack.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#283

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #264
scarface74 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no “wonderful” cross platform GUIs and that been true for over two decades.

Might be, but that is surely one area where .NET loses hand down to Java. Not to mention the fact that WP failed on the market, while Android strives.

Tell that to all of the Android OEMs that are losing money...

Even Google has only made less than $30 billion in profit on Android....(https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/21/10810834/android-generate...)

But yes there are cross platform GUIs for .Net.

https://www.hanselman.com/blog/CrossplatformGUIsWithOpenSour...

https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia/blob/master/readme.md

Yeah they probably suck and don’t look are behave like native apps - but no cross platform framework does.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#284

Post by scarface74 »

royjacobs wrote: post #255
scarface74 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no “wonderful” cross platform GUIs and that been true for over two decades.

I assume you're trolling at this point but if that's not the case then the Qt company would like a word with you.

Yes I know they exists. But my definition of “good” is does look and work like a native app? That’s not true for anything Java based or Electron or .Net.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#285

Post by [deleted] »

dtech wrote: post #69
_lbaq wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kotlin is a JVM language, sold as a better Java, and the JVM is really the thing that is the echo system gathers around, not necessarily the language Java. Other interesting languages you have on the JVM is Scala (multi-paradigm), Clojure (Lisp), EtaLang (Haskell) - https://eta-lang.org - https://www.scala-lang.org - https://kotlinlang.org - https://clojure.org

Notice how I separately addressed JVM and Java. Java is already losing market share to JVM competitor languages. JVM is in a stronger position than Java, but imagine a world were 15-10 years ago native compilation for JVM bytecode became available instead of 1 year ago. LLVM wouldn't have stood a chance. Kotlin and Scala (I'm not too familiar with Clojure and others) are hedging their bets and making JS/Webassembly a…

[deleted]

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#286

Post by erik_seaberg »

craigsmansion wrote: post #102
pjmlp wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the CVE database, all hope is lost if those programmers can never rise about their level of C profency.

Hmm? I'm not saying all C programmers are good, or even that people should prefer C for production code. I'm claiming that if you're bad at C programming, you're not going to be not-bad at programming some other "higher" imperative language.

No C programmer has ever been good. It demands an inhuman level of perfection, or formal methods that boil down to a theorem proving language with C window dressing (the mostly-proprietary stuff Rust competes with).

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#287

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #258
scarface74 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of tying your horse to one dead end platform - .Net Framework - you’re okay with tying your horse to two? It was clear that C++/CLI was a dead end a decade ago. When Microsoft mentions thier “strategies” for various .Net languages, you notice which one is missing? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/the-net-language-strat... I’m very much a .Net fan but it makes about as much since as a developer to tie…

I tie my horses to the platforms that customers pay for, instead of religious rants. I even use C, if that is what customers want to have done for them. Those Azure Linux VMs happen to run on Hyper-V hypervisors.

So it’s “religious” not to tie your career to a platform that the vendor and the market are both moving away from? If I chose my language and technology choices based on what I like and not marketability, I wouldn’t be going near React, Node or any of the cool kids stuff.

I would rather not end up like old VB6 developers trying to find a job in 2008.

I know a developer who worked in a company for 20 years got laid off and complained about “ageism” because no one would hire him and all of his experience in 2017 was in Windows Forms and Web Forms.

Yes, I’ve been there done that too. Mid 2008, I had been at a company doing C++/MFC and VB6 and felt stuck and unhireable. I was in my mod 30s then. I wouldn’t dare tie myself to a stack that even the vendor is saying is being deprecated in my mid 40s.

I’ve also left a job before when the .Net product I was hired for couldn’t find a market and they wanted everyone to switch and do PHP. All 14 developers left within six months. We all knew the danger of working in old tech.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#288

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #268
scarface74 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well seeing that Java Cards don’t even run the full version of Java.....

Yeah, but they surely don't run any version of .NET, not even an incomplete one.

So it’s really not running Java as defined by the specification...

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#289

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #261
scarface74 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes is based on a 17 year old code base with a framework that hasn’t been updated in a decade. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Java. Seeing that Apple started a project to rewrite Maps back in 2014, hopefully they didn’t decide to rewrite it using WebObjects ( https://appleinsider.com/articles/14/07/01/apple-overhauling... )

What matters is that it brings money home. Maps uses Clojure, and is partially developed here in Berlin.

Until you are out there trying to find another job in two years and people start looking at you like an old VB6 or PowerBuilder developer.....

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#290

Post by scarface74 »

im3w1l wrote: post #275
scarface74 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no “wonderful” cross platform GUIs and that been true for over two decades.

Electron

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say Electron is “wonderful”. Unless you like running battery draining, memory hogging, non native apps.

Running Electron apps anywhere is like running iTunes on Windows.

Post reply on HN