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Amazon Quits China Market

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Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#281

Post by ksec »

product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

Can you name me where it has "won"? Apart from US, UK, Germany, Not entirely sure about Canada, Italy, France, Spain. And I can give you India as they are fighting hard.

China, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong ( Doesn't even have a presence ) Most of SEA, Australia, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland. all of these failed in one way or another or is in no way the majority online market leader.

One of the problem with online world is that most International news outlet are really US focused and they publish article saying the world when they meant Western World, US focus, EU secondary, and largely ignore Asia, Africa and South America.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#282

Post by lexs »

manigandham wrote: post #273
lexs wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bombadier literally was ended by the US government

Do you mean Bombardier? The aviation company with $16B in revenue and 65k employees? Looks like there was a tariff imposed on one of their models due to a complaint by Boeing but was overturned 4 months later in Jan 2018. If this is the company you're talking about, can you describe what you mean by "literally was ended"?

Without the Airbus deal for the C-Series Bombardier was basically in bankruptcy exactly because of those tariffs. It felt like quite a targeted attempt to, as you put it, suppress competitors.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#283

Post by tekkk »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #181
CriticalCathed wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Act how? What precisely could be done outside of protectionist policies that seem to be regarded as outmoded, inefficient, and taboo. Are we going to war? Isolationism? React in kind? Simply wait?

It seems the parent is suggesting that we block Chinese companies from operating in the USA, basically tit-for-tat retribution. Based on "...while their own companies operate freely in those foreign countries" This might be applicable for hardware sales, but for service companies (including ecommerce, search, ride hailing, all the big USA tech company niches) it's kind of a moot point. None of the big Chinese compani…

Well it's a difficult problem, and tit-for-tat retribution could be the optimal action based on my little knowledge on game theory (https://ncase.me/trust/). Yet if things would go badly and the global economy go into turmoil, I think it would be notably worse for both.

Another problem I've noted is also the Chinese companies buying up Western companies and seemingly operating as Western, but actually being fully owned by the Chinese companies which might be even indirectly owned by the Chinese government. Volvo, Supercell, Nokia phones (HMD Global) comes to my mind. From what I learned Western companies can not similarly buy Chinese companies at least fully, and part-Chinese ownership is almost required for a company to become highly successful in China.

So my conclusion is that if foreign companies can't operate freely in China, why should Chinese companies be able to operate with much less restriction in those same countries. Especially if it yields a monetary benefit for the Chinese doing so. Doesn't seem smart. Would love to see some actual research on this.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#284

Post by omilu »

landryraccoon wrote: post #265
ericfrenkiel wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per capita GDP and gross GDP easily refute your apologia. Pro tip: at least try to submit something unrelated to China every now and then, otherwise people may rightly or wrongly call you a troll.

I'm curious what you think this confidence buys the west. Like, is it actually beneficial to be overconfident? Let's say you're right and he's wrong. The consequence of overestimating China is slight. So, we were a little worried when we didn't have to be. On the other hand, the consequences for a nation or a business of underestimating China could be catastrophic. It could mean finding your business or nation sudden…

“Every minute I spent thinking about competitors was a minute wasted” -PG

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#285

Post by ionised »

product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

Why do you think Amazon has 'won' elsewhere in the world?

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#286

Post by SZJX »

manigandham wrote: post #235
seemuch wrote: post #220

The discussion in this thread shows how blind people are about China's development. They are pointing fingers to the Chinese government partly because they simply cannot imagine how much better the China competitors are. The US do have some advantages in the IT industry, but that advantage is getting slimmer and slimmer. In fact, in so many ways, people in China are enjoying much better services from the internet com…

The China competitors are better because they are actively helped by the government while foreign companies are not, and in this case actively suppressed. Competition only works when the market is fair. Perhaps Amazon could not make as good of an offering but their marketshare was 15% 10 years ago and China is a large, homogenous, and modernized population like the US which is perfect for Amazon's scale strategy. It'…

Could you go into more details on how exactly Amazon was "suppressed" in China while the competitors were helped? If not you're talking out of thin air.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#287

Post by SZJX »

ericfrenkiel wrote: post #262
thetechlead wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just in e-commerce, the convenience living in China has far passed America, such as in mobile payment, food delivery, bike sharing, WeChat with its tremendously useful ecosystem, the subway system, high-speed rails, etc. Having lived in both China and America, I have to say the living standard in Chinese cities has passed America's in many ways and, more importantly, the speed of China building new facilities is…

Per capita GDP and gross GDP easily refute your apologia. Pro tip: at least try to submit something unrelated to China every now and then, otherwise people may rightly or wrongly call you a troll.

That's a quite peculiar definition of "troll". Why can't somebody have a particular focus on a certain type of news/discussion? Your comments read much more like trolling.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#288

Post by SZJX »

bleriot wrote: post #264
seemuch wrote: post #159

I am so sad to see how the comments under this post manifest. People just blindly pointing fingers to the big evil Chinese government for the failure, without any evidence whatsoever. I get it, failures are hard. But you can face it and learn to be responsible for it. All grownups do that. I think American are transitioning from a bunch of doers to a bunch of whiners.

Do you deny that the Chinese government makes it extremely difficult for US companies to operate there?

And that must be why Microsoft, Nike, Starbucks etc. failed so miserably, right?

And could you explain how exactly the Chinese gov made things difficult for Amazon?

Seriously this whole thread is just amazing, tragic and downright sad.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#289

Post by SZJX »

yadaeno wrote: post #238

In online retail, shipping speed and selection are what entice customers. I'd argue that the UX and promotion landscape are moot past a certain point. Fast shipping and selection comes down to infrastructure. China is spread out, this means each FC must carry more stock on average, and you need more FCs per person to reduce shipping time. Markets like Japan and small EU countries are juicy targets for this reason (wh…

This is at least a more reasonable take on the matter than those pointing fingers at the big, evil Chinese government without any clue what they're talking about.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#290

Post by SZJX »

rossdavidh wrote: post #189
tekkk wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the evidence in this case seems to be against this statement (Amazon indeed offered worse service than competitors) I think it is otherwise valid. Chinese are really driven to become the world's superpower number 1 and give no quarter to Western companies trying to establish themselves in China. So the big dilemma is, do we let them? Or more precisely, do we as the outside world let Chinese stifle all the forei…

Hasn't this been obvious for years? Like, centuries? No major power allows other nations, especially nations which are not close military allies, to dominate its economy. China acts in its own self-interest, as does...every other nation in the history of the planet which is able to. The U.K., the U.S., or any other major economic power, will not allow its economy to be dominated by companies from countries that it do…

Well said. The mainstream propaganda is just way too prevalent. If people actually read a bit of history of their own countries they'd immediately find out how brutal the struggles between the western countries have been and how incredibly "protectionist" and hostile their own governments have been.
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