Live data from Hacker News

Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

281–290 of 728 posts

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I associate unions with homogenized labor, stratus of equivalent positions, but we’re all too unique 10x butterflies for that. I mean, what part of your career arc would have been better served in a unionized environment?

Who says it has to be an according-to-Hoyle union? The NLRA covers all concerted organized action. Start a professional association. The doctors and lawyers have them. We don't get one? Why?

There's the ACM and IEEE already though?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#282

And it has been my experience that people who have politics "happen" to them from "the moment [they] wake up to the moment [they] sleep" in large part simply perceive that to be their existence. I have read countless articles and posts at this point claiming that "America doesn't care about black bodies" and that black people in America should "fear for their lives every day," all in regards to the perceived danger o…

> And it has been my experience that people who have politics "happen" to them from "the moment [they] wake up to the moment [they] sleep" in large part simply perceive that to be their existence.

Why do you think that your opinions about other people's feelings and experiences are more valid that their actual experiences?

(When answering, please be aware that that your statistic about police killings does not single-handedly invalidate black Americans' daily experience of racism and discrimination.)

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#284

When intelligent animals pay their lives for their presence on your plate, then your dinner choice is no longer an entirely personal decision.

Grazing animals and birds (as well as fish) have been feeding mankind for millions of years. We are omnivorous not by accident. Food is one of the most deeply cultural things that weaves society together and a company imposing its beliefs about diet on its individuals is the biggest form of elitism and one of the pettiest moves I have ever seen. A company has no business dictating this.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#285
post #22

Good for them. The structural change needed in our industry is for labor (or, to use a term we're apparently more comfortable with, "talent") to reassert itself, and for tech giants to reconcile themselves to the fact that they're accountable not just to their shareholders but to their employees. I hope this gets nasty, and that these FB employees ultimately find recourse in the NLRA. We forget that this industry is…

The idea that a bunch of highly paid conservative software developers would unionize and get the NLRB involved is rich.

Sure, it's funny, but shush, they're coming around to unions being good!

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#286
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay/LGBTQ rights and tolerance in the workplace is way different than donating to Trump. I understand if you don't think a company should support a political party, but LGBTQ/gay tolerance meetings don't fall into that category. If you put this into the context of some other progressive social movement such as giving women equal opportunity to men, it makes more sense. A company would not be out of line giving semina…

"tolerance" swings both ways. Unless you choose to be intolerant. The majority of people who spout tolerance and acceptance at me are the least tolerant and acceptant of other beliefs.

I think this is an interesting read on the topic: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#287

And it has been my experience that people who have politics "happen" to them from "the moment [they] wake up to the moment [they] sleep" in large part simply perceive that to be their existence. I have read countless articles and posts at this point claiming that "America doesn't care about black bodies" and that black people in America should "fear for their lives every day," all in regards to the perceived danger o…

Except one doesn't have to fear being killed by the police to be wary of them. The fact is that POC are arrested disproportionately to their population size. Being incarcerated is enough to cut your chances of a job offer or a call back by %50[1]. There are many underlying reasons as to why POC people are arrested more, including remnants of systemic oppression, but that is another argument for another time.

It's easy to hand-wave other's hardships away when one doesn't experience them first-hand, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[1] https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#288
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We're all generally well-paid (even with respect to the value we create). But this whole message board is practically dedicated to the ways in which our industry pisses us off, from confiscatory IP clauses to open offices to death march projects. Who's to say labor can't organize simply for a better shop to work in? That's not unprecedented.

I associate unions with homogenized labor, stratus of equivalent positions, but we’re all too unique 10x butterflies for that. I mean, what part of your career arc would have been better served in a unionized environment?

Unions are one way. Guilds are another.

For people who are supposedly so highly paid the majority of my peers can't afford children. The rent of a two bedroom flat/house and the price of daycare means the household needs to earn close to $600,000/y for two children. That's maybe the top 10% in most companies. If a class in society can't afford to reproduce itself it is underpaid regardless of how many trinkets it can afford compared to the median.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#289
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because conservatives are anti-union and anti-NLRB. Edit: why the heck am I being downvoted? I'm literally just explaining what I assumed the GP was referring to.

I agree about the irony. I think it's pretty sad that in the last 12 months, the two major tech/labor stories have been about conservative employees pushing back against supposedly-liberal corporations. But, whatever. A wakeup call is a wakeup call. I think these FB people can succeed, and should succeed.

The key word being supposedly. None of these "liberal" corporations have been left-liberal in terms of workers' rights or well-being. They want a rainbow of representation among the top-10% stratum of elite professionals to whom they pay enough to not need food stamps.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But absolute freedom of speech IS A LEFT WING OPINION" That only holds if you're willing to perform enough mental gymnastics to somehow transmogrify the gulags, mass graves, firing squads and famines that the USSR, Mao Zedong, Cuba, Pol Pot, etc. employed to deal with dissenters into features of right wing governance. Or just pretend these things don't count...

One could argue they were "punching a nazi" of their time. The establishment of a dictatorship of the working class was a mission for which no human sacrifice was too great. Obviously we're nowhere near that in modern US, BUT the hints of "violence in exchange for a dissenting opinion" and "what I don't agree with is Nazism" are unpleasant to say the least.

>the hints of "violence in exchange for a dissenting opinion"

I couldn't agree more. I've seen both actual violence and extreme glorification of violence against people of the opposite political affiliation more and more over the past couple years. Many people seem to dismiss the calls to violence as "trolls", which is actually probably true, but I have to wonder if there is much of a difference between a troll who calls for violence and loves to see people get attacked at rallies, and a person who would actually be happy about these things if they became worse than they are now. I feel like there used to be a solid distinction, but I'm not sure any longer that there's really a hard line between all "trolls" and people who would actually enact these things, given the power (and given no significant threat to themselves, of course).

Post reply on HN