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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#161

Post by AmericanChopper »

taurath wrote: post #130
AmericanChopper wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is true at all, I think it’s the middle that’s moved. I was quite left leaning when I was a teenager, but some of my views would be called ‘alt-right’ or extreme today. My values haven’t really changed that much, but they’re much more aligned with the right today. (Downvoted within seconds, very nice).

You're right, in terms of some social policies. We've gone from it being a left leaning thing to not support assaulting out LGBT people to tacit mainstream support of the idea of having equal rights. In terms of economics and power, the rich have gotten richer, the republicans have gotten ruthlessly more fundamentalist. Reagan raised taxes. Nixon proposed universal healthcare. Obamacare/Romneycare was originally a He…

We’ve actually moved from a society that was openly intolerant of liberal values, to one that is openly intolerant of conservative ones. Neither of those scenarios are better, it’s just putting the shoe on the other foot. When I was a kid I had to worry about some coalition of Christians or moms petitioning congress to prevent me from listening to rage against the machine. Now I have to worry about a mob of liberals branding me a Nazi and trying to get me fired for supporting free speech. I’ve always supported freedom of expression and tolerance to other world views. When I was younger, that made me a liberal. Today, that makes me a conservative (or an extremist depending on who you ask).

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#162

Post by tjr225 »

exabrial wrote: post #78
nsxwolf wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an interesting reaction. Are there also some left leaning views that don’t deserve respect?

For starters: * anti-vaccination * anti-gmo I have a few others, but it saddens me to admit I don't have enough faith that HN is free speech forum.

Wha are you afraid of? Losing internet points? Give me a break.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#163

Post by _8j50 »

austinheap wrote: post #127
fatjokes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I completely disagree with the whole "bring your whole self to work". No! Bring your professional self to work. The counter-argument is that the causes relate to discrimination in the workforce. I.e., BLM needs to be supported because blacks are underrepresented in the American tech workforce. I disagree these need to be equivalent. It's possible for a company to promote hiring underrepresented minorities…

It's called corporate social responsibility. Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. As a gay dude that grew up in Ohio -- and had people yell "fag" when I got my diploma at graduation -- I'm beyond happy that the next generation of LGBTQ engineers won't grow up with the same level of hate I experienced. The arc of moral justice is only bent when force is applied.

You only say that because it's convenient for you. You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. It really is a two way street and u-turns are allowed.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#165

Post by _mhyx »

haha99 wrote: post #112
_mhyx wrote: post #87

The comments in this thread are shocking, Inquisition level stuff. I can't believe I spend time here. Remember when HN was tech stuff? Now it's: manfredo 16 minutes ago The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. This and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, i…

Enable "showdead" in your profile and you will see that anything that moves beyond the left is promptly flagged and, sometimes, the account gets banned for "starting flames".

But absolute freedom of speech IS A LEFT WING OPINION! Is no one here old enough to remember the fight over pornography or offensive language in art/music/movies? That was the right trying to shut down speech they disagreed with via corporate power! These people are _not_ liberals, they're something else that's new and terrifying

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#166

Post by gameswithgo »

_8j50 wrote: post #148
megaremote wrote: post #108

> Why are companies promoting "pride"...telling workers to attend 'lgbt tolerance' meetings,etc... Wth!!!! You ask this question, then answer it in your very next line. People don't respect everyone. They are intolerant.

Why is disrespecting or demeaning a coworker for any reason allowed? If I disrespect you because your haircut is unfashionable,would that be ok? If the meeting was about supporting neo-nazis ,would that not be saying the conmpany tolerates neo-nazis and does not welcome those who hate neo-nazism? Yet, you should respect your neo-nazi coworker,even if you were not told so.

It seems there are many valid reasons to disrespect a coworker, and being a neo-nazi is one of them.

You cannot hide a violent philosophy behind a shield of "it is my beliefs". None of us shall ever accept it. If it becomes the law that I must accept neo nazis, I still will not.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#167

Post by joshuamorton »

adventured wrote: post #42
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #20

I guess sooner or later someone will link to these, so may as well be me :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://xkcd.com/1357/

If you're a social media platform that possesses such a vast, overwhelming monopoly as what Facebook has, then you are capable of censorship . Your status as a monopoly means the normal market rules no longer apply to you. That you comply with the first amendment should properly be a pass-through legal requirement as a condition of your status as a monopolist. If they resist cooperating with that designation, despite…

Could you explain how Facebook has a monopoly on the public discourse?

Jones was banned from YouTube, Twitter, Spotify, and itunes. That's 4 other platforms controlled by four other entities.

For many people, Twitter and YouTube will both have larger reach than Facebook (yes fb has more users, but people don't go to Facebook to catch up on news from big influencers like they do on Twitter), so what makes Facebook the monopoly?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#168

Post by _iyig »

bodas wrote: post #133
_iyig wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree that all criticism of misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy is driven by “deeply-rooted white supremacy.” I would fire anyone who held such a belief, as I would not trust them around female, gay, or ex-Muslim co-workers.

A straw man would probably not be a very effective employee anyway.

If you feel I’ve misunderstood your comment, or that you did not fully articulate your point, please feel free to elaborate. I’m not overly swayed or impressed by drive-by disparagement.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#169

Post by tptacek »

euroclydon wrote: post #139
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We're all generally well-paid (even with respect to the value we create). But this whole message board is practically dedicated to the ways in which our industry pisses us off, from confiscatory IP clauses to open offices to death march projects. Who's to say labor can't organize simply for a better shop to work in? That's not unprecedented.

I associate unions with homogenized labor, stratus of equivalent positions, but we’re all too unique 10x butterflies for that. I mean, what part of your career arc would have been better served in a unionized environment?

Who says it has to be an according-to-Hoyle union? The NLRA covers all concerted organized action. Start a professional association. The doctors and lawyers have them. We don't get one? Why?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#170

Post by aluren »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

I don't mean any offense, but it has been my experience that people who can afford to "put politics aside", so to speak, are people from demographics who didn't have politics "happen" to them.

When you are gay or trans and a significant chunk of people find your mere existence revolting, when you are black and a significant chunk of people believe you are innately less intelligent and more prone to violence, when you are a woman and a significant chunk of people believe you have no business starting a career or working in tech or people don't believe you when you claim to have been sexually assaulted, it's hard to treat "politics" as an abstract debate where free-thinking intellectuals joust in the marketplace of ideas. In these contexts, you actually live "politics" - every day, from the moment you wake up to the moment you sleep. You can't opt out of it.

I am taking these examples because they resonate best with what are considered "political" subjects in the West, but in more gruesome contexts, such as the situation of Syria, "politics" is whether you are pro-Assad, pro-rebel, which rebel group you are part of, etc. You can see how silly (at best) or insulting (at worst) it can be to try and dismiss politics when they are actually a matter of life or death.

Whenever there is a struggle, whenever there is an imbalance of power perceived by some to be unfair, there is politics. If you do not perceive that imbalance, it means you are on the better end of it, and your lack of stand is simply apathy for the status quo. I don't seek to judge you for that, but hopefully you may understand that some people are unhappy with the status quo and wish that it change, and that's why they're getting political.

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