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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#281

Post by trevor-e »

candiodari wrote: post #251
trevor-e wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I'll look at a candidate's Github account whenever they list it on their resume. That doesn't mean I'll bring it up during the interview unless there was something particularly interesting to talk about. It's pretty useful for screening candidates, especially looking at code written <1 year ago. I do keep in mind that code written in free time might not have the same standards as production code, but often ther…

You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? Besides, you are only using this as a negative ? So you'll actually hire people who don't put in extra effort over people who put slightly substandard free time code online ? That seems like a losing strategy. I've always found that willingness to put in effort vastly outperforms ability. Not to an infinite extent, but quite a bit.

>You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ?

Yea, but why would someone bother in this case?

>Besides, you are only using this as a negative ? So you'll actually hire people who don't put in extra effort over people who put slightly substandard free time code online ? That seems like a losing strategy.

That's not what I said at all. It's potentially a positive or a negative, just like anything else on a resume. I've seen plenty of Github profiles that have files with 2000 lines of spaghetti code and no structure or testability. Just like I've seen profiles with neat projects and excellent code.

>I've always found that willingness to put in effort vastly outperforms ability. Not to an infinite extent, but quite a bit.

I agree with this in general too.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#283

Post by convolvatron »

rco8786 wrote: post #198
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

> unmaintainable junk Isn't that what pretty much every side project is anyway? Unless you're an active OSS developer the chances of any of your projects being worthy of judgment is pretty slim. I've got 10-12 repos on github I can show you...they're all half baked weekend projects that I did just to tinker with some new technology or idea I had. None of them are production quality, and most of them I'm appalled at a…

none of my private doodles have gone through design review, actual testing, user feedback, deployment, and the 500 (or 1000 or 5000) closed bugs it takes to make them representative of professional work.

neither does that 1 wk coding exercise you made me do unpaid which I'm pretty resentful of.

If you have an open source project and want me to fix a couple bugs and do some reviews to see what kind of work I do, thats pretty fair (Rethink asked me to do this, I couldn't afford the time, but I thought it was a good plan)

Otherwise, I really don't know what you expect to learn

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#284

Post by neverartful »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #129
stephengillie wrote: post #10

Passion is a code word for free labor.

I often laugh at people who use passionate not realizing the root of the word more or less means suffering. You want me to suffer for your company? No thanks, thats beyond the bounds of employment imo.

Indeed! I always cringe every time I hear the word in our industry. I suspect (and hope) that most who say it are really meaning committed/dedicated to their work (and no, not in a committed/dedicated as code for sacrificing work/life balance). My belief is that most companies (excluding startups) should prefer dispassionate people. Why? Because it's too easy for the passionate to be emotionally attached to things (language, stack, framework, methodology), to where it can interfere with objectivity. I've worked with guys who would threaten to quit (and one Perl who did quit) if $favorite-language was not going to be used in the future.

The other worrisome thing about the passionate is that they're more likely to burn out.

What's wrong in our industry about being non-passionate? I don't get it.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#285

Post by vortico »

Getting a job is a competition. There is no absolute criteria for whether you should get a job or not. So why should an employer prefer you over someone who loves programming and problem solving so much that they do it as a hobby? If your excuse is that your previous jobs were so invigorating that you had no free time for personal software projects, then your reward is the higher pay you've received at those jobs compared to other easier ones you could have taken. If you decide to hike and paint instead of work on software for fun, that is perfectly fine, but those activities are simply less valuable to an employer. To me, this article is a textbook case of the "I do less work than my peers but should receive the same opportunities" complaint.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#286

Post by convolvatron »

microtherion wrote: post #250
warcher wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, sure. And if you followed the letter of the law I’m sure you deleted it all from your laptop promptly and is unavailable to you no matter what. But if you didn’t, for whatever reason, and you happen to have an illegal copy of some production CRUD app hanging around so I can look at how you organize your thoughts, nobody I’ve interviewed has ever gotten even a whiff of heat for letting me look over their shoulde…

A candidate showing me code they wrote for their previous employer would be pretty much an automatic black flag for me. It's a matter of "if you want to know how they'll treat you, look at how they're treating their ex".

exactly. I work damn hard when I leave a place to make sure I have absolutely zero IP. its likely none of it would be useful to anyone anyway. But thats what I agreed to explicitly, thats what my former employer wanted, and as unlikely as it is that anything would happen I wouldn't want to taint a new company with code that can't be clearly attributed to them (which is what they paid for).

thats insane

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#287

Post by fma »

kemitche wrote: post #269
notzorbo3 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers don't care. The wrong empoyers don't care. The right ones do. My github portfolio is a means for me to determine if a potential employer is suitable for me, not the other way around. It's not a test for me to pass, it's a test for a potential employer to pass. If a recruiter brings up things listed on my LinkedIn page, I know they're not suitable for me. If they bring up things on my github, I'm reasonabl…

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

Me either. It's become cool to work 60 hours a week because you like your job, and then go home and do more programming because you like programming.

Why it's cool... I don't know. I agree it helped me in the early days of my career, but at this point, as a senior developer I can pick up new technology much faster than my early days. I can come up with a working solutions much faster.

I like my job, and I like programming... But there are other things I like too.

So, why do I need to work long hours and program outside of my job? I have good enough communication skills to convey my experience. If I'm not hired for not having an active github account, or a side project, there are five other companies that would.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#288

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

warcher wrote: post #186
walshemj wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude as a Dude who knows a little about employment law all your work code belongs to your employer.

Sure, sure. And if you followed the letter of the law I’m sure you deleted it all from your laptop promptly and is unavailable to you no matter what. But if you didn’t, for whatever reason, and you happen to have an illegal copy of some production CRUD app hanging around so I can look at how you organize your thoughts, nobody I’ve interviewed has ever gotten even a whiff of heat for letting me look over their shoulde…

I was kind of with you up until this point. That's a line that is foolish to cross.

Any candidate who plays fast and loose with their previous employers' code is going to play fast and loose with _your_ code. Or your corporate secrets. Or lifting GPL code. Or pretty anything else they think they can make off with. Such employees are a lawsuit waiting to happen and are best avoided, as are employers who tolerate such employees.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#289

Post by foo101 »

jogjayr wrote: post #151
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

This. Not once has a potential employer ever said to me: "Based on your Github, you can obviously fizzbuzz with the best of them, and know a for-loop from an if-statement. Let's skip the phone screen/homework assignment and get you onsite directly."

Time for anecdotes. Twice in my career, an employer has looked at my GitHub and asked specific questions about certain projects, what motivated me to write the project, why did I not use a popular big data technology to write the project, etc.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#290

Post by derekp7 »

dude01 wrote: post #216
city41 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a side project that I wanted to make into a side business. I worked with my employer to write up a doc that said they'd have no claim on it and would let me own it. My employer did have the "we own everything you make" in my contract.

I know someone who tried that - the company fired him, plus the company fought paying him unemployment. You gotta watch out!

One alternative I've thought about, is how can you negotiate your way out of that clause when you start a job (seeing as how it is slipped into the paperwork you have to sign on the first day, too late to not take the job if you've already quit your previous one).

I wonder how most employers would react to a request to have an attorney look it over, and use the excuse that you want to make sure it doesn't interfere with any non-profit volunteer work you do.

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