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Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

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Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#281
post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

Actually it isn't precisely Apple's fault. It's the USB-IFs fault. USB 3.1 in general is a mess. The spec allows for Alternate Modes, where the port is hardwired on the Motherboard to be able to be switched to deliver DisplayPort, HDMI, MHL, Thunderbolt, and damn near anything else you can figure out how to mux over the port's pins and cheaply demux on the other end of the cable. The best part is no one will actually…

The whole ongoing Thunderbolt display fiasco where there are two different kinds of adapter from USB-C to mini-DisplayPort, each of which supports a non-overlapping set of monitors, is almost entirely Apple's fault though. They were the ones who decided to push Thunderbolt monitors using the mini-DP connectors, then chose to make and sell an adapter that didn't support actual DisplayPort.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#282
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect an off-brand USB-C adapter to be able to fully support DisplayPort. USB-C does not natively contain DisplayPort. Also, don't daisy-chain adapters when you don't have to. Use a USB-C to HDMI adapter. Such as this one: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av...

Herein lies the problem. Consumers don't understand or care why these things don't work, they just don't and it's frustrating. "I bought the adapter and plugs in, why doesn't it turn on?" I shouldn't need to explain to my dad why there are two indistinguishable plugs that follow different standards where one works and one doesn't.

"We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works." -Douglas Adams

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#283
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really disconcerting thing here is that this is the first macbook in 10 years to be a major regression on key points. Since the first Intel macbook, Apple has focused on core competencies: good touchpad, good screen, good battery life. Every generation got consistently better on those dimensions. PC vendors will do stuff like ship a great touchpad one generation and a shit one the next, but you could generally co…

The problem is that reducing thickness is a selling point/feature for a lot of people on Apple products, but the compromises made in exchange for thinness cause problems for people who don't value thinness over other things. Having said that, it's important to note that CR did not give the Macbook Pro a Recommended badge (think of it as the equivalent to "Editor's Choice"), it doesn't mean they're telling people not…

> The problem is that reducing thickness is a selling point/feature for a lot of people on Apple products, but the compromises made in exchange for thinness cause problems for people who don't value thinness over other things.

Almost everybody would rather have thinness, all else being equal. The new 15" MBP is a pound lighter than the 13" Macbook I had ten years ago, and barely bigger in footprint. The new machine also packs a larger battery and quad-core CPU. There is now way I'd go back to the old form factor just to get back say the optical disk or MiniDVI port.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#284
post #155
post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

I've gotten myself into a stupid situation where I have purchased something like 4 adapters that don't accomplish what I thought they would when I bought them. USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to HDMI -> Monitor - doesn't work USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to DVI-D -> Monitor - doesn't work USB-C to Ethernet - doesn't work I'm actually planning to just go to Best Buy today and try to find anything that will…

Also, the following does not work:

USB-C to HDMI -> HDMI to VGA -> Monitor

This forced me to buy a separate "USB-C to VGA" adapter. But with that, I cannot connect my USD laserpointer any more. It's a mess.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#285

Let's not forget when Consumer Reports attacked the iPhone 4 because of the antenna issue. That model went on to set sales records. If we're looking for a signal about the MacBook Pro's success, sales numbers may be a better indicator.

> ...the iPhone 4 because of the antenna issue. That model went on to set sales records.

Apple also conceded the issue and gave all iPhone 4 users a free case.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#286
I have a 13" macbook pro touchbar (~2500 bucks with warranty!). I've had it for about 4.5-5 weeks or so.

I LOVE my Apple laptops, and have NO problem paying a premium for them. They have been excellent, and every member of my family is outfitted wth an Apple computer. The IT distraction time since I switched everyone has been pretty much NIL.

I took it on a trip that was 16 days, or I would have returned it (14 day return policy). Now I'm thinking about dumping it on eBay.

Here is why:

* The battery life for a developer is terrible. I consistently get between 3-4 hours of battery life when developing, at best. It's probably 2 hours less than my old 2013 Macbook Pro 15.

* The touchbar is not an improvement. I'm constantly hitting back in browsers as my hand is large and brushes against the bar. It has also crashed on me multiple times when watching long videos, which means I can't mute or adjust the volume when someone calls (that's when I find out it's dusted itself). My experience is that it does a lot of accidental stuff because it exposes a lot of functionality that normally requires explicit input as casual input, so zooming around youtube videos and losing your spot, triggering Siri (yes, I turn it off eventually), accidentally muting with a simple touch, etc, are all super easy mistakes to make. I preferred it when my machine's behavior was predictable. The major issue is that thus far there is no upside for this downside — there are no killer features for the bar (even the volume, rather than giving you more granular controls, uses the old sound register stop points rather than moving to a 99% scale as would be obviously intuitive given the interface — just plain dumb design from Apple honestly). Similar to my experiences with Siri, it's not making my life better.

* It's not faster in practical applications, and in fact takes a while to recover compared to my old laptop (a lot of waiting to type on the login screen), though it's not particular noticeable.

* The arrow keys are utterly terrible. For a developer, they are a fail. Why Apple needed to kill those essential buttons (for games, dev, etc) is beyond my comprehension. The keyboard is definitely better, but the arrow key situation is a mess. * I have to keep my phone plugged in all the time, which means I have a dongle on my laptop pretty much permanently. This is dumb.

* The loss of the magsafe adapter has already caused my laptop to scoot right off the couch twice when animals and kids are around. Why? Why would you kill this and especially go back to a port than can be damaged with basic use? This just violates common sense.

What is better:

* The screen is sweet. I absolutely love it.

* The keyboard is awesome for touch typists.

* The touch pad is really the best I've ever used.

* The dark grey color is attractive.

I've also heard rumors that Apple has merged their macOS team into their main engineering / iOS teams or some such. Not what I wanted to hear, and totally not the direction that would keep me loyal to the company.

Overall, it's worse. And the features that have been added do not redeem the laptop (which is totally what almost every Apple device has done for me — I was stunned). This is the first time it's genuinely a step in the wrong direction. Though I haven't seen any discussion of it, I believe Apple made many of the mistakes it has made with the Apple watch on the Macbook Pro, but that may be because Apple added an Apple Watch to the Macbook Pro. It's solving problems I don't have, and therefore providing me with products that don't possess essential utility and therefore don't meaningfully improve my life or provide me with a "sense of better being," which is what graduated design at it's best can do. This is a big, big mistake, and exactly how Apple lost it's way the first time around.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#287
post #220

For those looking for alternatives here's a short video [1] that looks at some Windows based competitors in the same class. List below. Dell XPS 15 - http://amzn.to/2hZjqpT Asus UX501 - http://amzn.to/2hLG9VW MSI GS63 - http://amzn.to/2ik00Zf Gigabyte Aero14 - http://amzn.to/2ijMxk6 Razer Blade - http://amzn.to/2hvyGHj [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ

None of which, ironically, can match the new MBP in battery life.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#288
post #170
post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

> The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I c…

>If you can plug it in, it will work

this is completely false, because alt-mode exists and alt-mode doesn't have to support a fallback to USB-C. Google sells a usb-c to hdmi adapter in their store. If you connect it to a Nexus 6P, nothing happens, because the phones don't support hdmi alt-mode.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#289
post #19

I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been…

How do you deal with the arrow keys? I like the feel of the keyboard, but I found absolutely no way to orient my fingers over the arrow keys. There is no way tell whether I'm hitting the up arrow or the right shift. As someone who works with text, it's a deal breaker for me.

Same here. As I wrote in this [1] comment, the touch bar being in the way + no escape key + uniform arrow keys = very frustrating touch-typing experience.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13098257

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#290
post #207

I'm calling it the MacBook Vista. Ouch. After seeing the touch bar, I think it's really not all that useful. I would much rather have seen more battery, RAM, faster CPU options, traditional USB and HDMI, magsafe, and more SSD. Basically take the 2014-2015 MacBook Pro and beef it up and I will be very happy. People say it's selling. Of course it is. Mac still has a near-monopoly on "Unix with good UI." But if they kee…

I really hope that better "Unix with good UI" laptops will exist in the future. Right now, I'd rather buy a 2015 MBP than any of those "Dev Edition" machines.
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