Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports • Hacker News Board

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#151

Post by krinchan » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC

spilk wrote: post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

Actually it isn't precisely Apple's fault. It's the USB-IFs fault.

USB 3.1 in general is a mess. The spec allows for Alternate Modes, where the port is hardwired on the Motherboard to be able to be switched to deliver DisplayPort, HDMI, MHL, Thunderbolt, and damn near anything else you can figure out how to mux over the port's pins and cheaply demux on the other end of the cable. The best part is no one will actually list what Alternate Modes their laptop or motherboard supports. So if I want a laptop that supports, DisplayPort Alternate Mode with dual monitors, I'm opening support tickets with manufacturers asking "Does your USB-C port run this?"

Apple and Intel simply followed along what with what was already a mess.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#152

Post by repler » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC

spilk wrote: post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

I dunno man, my eyes glazed over somewhere in the middle of that third paragraph and I'm just happy I don't have to deal with any of that.

Think they'll wise up and change any of it on the next model?

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#153

Post by skizm » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #147

s_kilk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we might see a 32g model next year? Wasn't this year supposed to be when 32GB landed?

Would have been if Intel had released a 32GB capable mobile chip that's not slower than the last generation. Probably it got delayed after the overall shape and size were set in stone, so Apple had to go with the previous gen and work a miracle. Or it was a conscious decision since this shape/size will be the base of all laptops for the next few processor generations and will be supported for the next 10 years or so.

How does the Dell XPS 15in or the Razer Blade laptops have 32gb of ram if Intel doesn't support that much? Do they use different chips in their laptops?

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#154

Post by krinchan » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #150

spilk wrote: post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

Putting everything and the kitchen sink into USB-C was a mistake. I already have a horrible mess of weird cables that aren't interoperable, don't support Superspeed, have current limits, etc. USB should be one thing and one thing only; a Universal Serial Bus. Can you send video over a serial connection? Great, let's do that instead of using the same physical connector for 85 different incompatible video cable designs…

Even better, try finding a laptop that will run DisplayPort alternate mode over the USB-C port. EDIT: Or HDMI for that matter.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#155

Post by 0x09 » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:38 PM UTC

spilk wrote: post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

I've gotten myself into a stupid situation where I have purchased something like 4 adapters that don't accomplish what I thought they would when I bought them.

USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to HDMI -> Monitor - doesn't work

USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to DVI-D -> Monitor - doesn't work

USB-C to Ethernet - doesn't work

I'm actually planning to just go to Best Buy today and try to find anything that will let me plug this into my old monitor here even if it has to be the official USB-C to VGA cable from Apple since I don't have time to wait for shipping at this point.

I suppose this is my own fault but somehow I've never had this kind of problem in ~20 years of using a computer.

Edit: There are also currently very few resources about compatibility between all these new adapters and Apple hasn't done anything to help in their spec info so it's really just a guessing game right now.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#156

Post by symfoniq » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

waffl wrote: post #146

spilk wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having owned MacBooks/PowerBooks/iBooks in various configurations over the past 15 or so years, what models were getting real-life 10 hour lifetimes, and while doing what? I've never seen anything near that on anything I've owned before.

Likewise, I've owned a huge number of mac laptops since the titanium PowerBook and I don't think I ever managed to get more than 4-5hr of real work use (adobe suite etc) I've always been confused by these 10hr claims and have never expected more than 4-5

I could get around 10 hours on my 2013 MacBook Pro doing mostly Web development in a text editor with the screen brightness set fairly low. My coworker is a writer, so he's not using Adobe CS or anything like that.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#157

Post by dave_sullivan » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

repler wrote: post #152

spilk wrote: post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

I dunno man, my eyes glazed over somewhere in the middle of that third paragraph and I'm just happy I don't have to deal with any of that. Think they'll wise up and change any of it on the next model?

"Steve never would have backed down, remove more ports!" is how that product meeting will go.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#158

Post by metafunctor » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

sprite wrote: post #9

Good thing they removed the battery time remaining indicator. People will never notice. /s

You can still, by the way, get the remaining time estimate in Activity Monitor. They only removed it from the status bar widget, everything else is still in place.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#159

Post by paublyrne » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

MiddleEndian wrote: post #52

jjawssd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In macOS 10.12 sierra you can option-click on the battery indicator and click on "show percentage". Now the fact that they are trying to obfuscate how low you are on juice is really damning

Show percentage is insufficient. If something in my behavior will cause the battery to drop from 50% to 0% in one hour instead of six, I want to know that.

You can use CoconutBattery to show time remaining in the menu bar. It is still being estimated, just not shown in macOS.

This does not excuse its removal.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#160

Post by riazrizvi » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

krinchan wrote: post #151

spilk wrote: post #135

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can y…

Actually it isn't precisely Apple's fault. It's the USB-IFs fault. USB 3.1 in general is a mess. The spec allows for Alternate Modes, where the port is hardwired on the Motherboard to be able to be switched to deliver DisplayPort, HDMI, MHL, Thunderbolt, and damn near anything else you can figure out how to mux over the port's pins and cheaply demux on the other end of the cable. The best part is no one will actually…

Apple is lauded for making confusing technology simple. It's not Apple's fault, it's Apple's missed opportunity and it's our high expectations of Apple that are being eroded.