Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports • Hacker News Board

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#131

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:01 PM UTC

benashford wrote: post #101

bnycum wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple claims a 10 hour battery life on the 2016, and 9 hours on the 2013 for both the wireless web and iTunes playback tests. Judging by the Comsumer Reports tests though, they would get a shift of 6+ hours from test to test on the 2016 model.

Apple appears to be banking on software efficiency gains offsetting the reduction in battery capacity. They've done this with various iPhone and iPad releases several times. But the trouble with trying the same thing for the Mac is the wider variety of software people run on macOS. Third-party software may not have got any more efficient, meaning the battery doesn't last as long. But if you stick to Mail.app and Safa…

Except that's exactly what didn't happen. They tested with Safari.

"For the battery test, we download a series of 10 web pages sequentially, starting with the battery fully charged, and ending when the laptop shuts down. The web pages are stored on a server in our lab, and transmitted over a WiFi network set up specifically for this purpose. We conduct our battery tests using the computer’s default browser—Safari, in the case of the MacBook Pro laptops."

CR goes into great detail about their methodology and reasoning for their results.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#132

Post by detaro » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:02 PM UTC

bpicolo wrote: post #128

at-fates-hands wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WOW. I could spec out a laptop (pick a vendor) with a 500SSD, i7, 32GB RAM and still be under 2K. I don't want to say their hardware is overpriced. . .but they're stuff is WAY over priced. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ZBook-Studio-G3-15-6-Core-i7-2-7G... $1,350.00 - HP ZBook Studio G3 - 15.6" - Core i7 2.7GHz (6th Gen) - 32GB RAM - 512GB SSD (M6V80AV) It's a dealer refurb, but still. . .

That said, 16 GB is sadly the norm. Dell XPS 15 caps there too. What the hell is going on here, though? Two different XPS 15 product pages: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la... http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd From the former, you can't even get to a 16GB laptop, despite the same price points. What the hell is up with that? They target consumers with a crappier box at…

You can upgrade the Dell XPS 15 (9550) to 32 GB though. Only the XPS 13 has soldered-on RAM. And if I remember right, it is a user-servicable part, so no loss of warranty if you upgrade it yourself.

EDIT: and price search sites show 32 GB models, so maybe you can have one upgraded directly from Dell somehow.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#133

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

dingo_bat wrote: post #97

mmjaa wrote: post #19

I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been…

What's the 'r' in 'rMBP'?

[deleted]

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#134

Post by jghn » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

jsjohnst wrote: post #112

jghn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on all counts. There are two other things I dislike about typing on my 2016 12" rMB: 1) if I have to make transient use of arrow keys I always mess it up and 2) over long periods of time my hands start hurting from always being pushed up against the sharp edges whereas on my 15" rMBP there are a few inches on each side of my hands. For the most part though I love that rMB. I wouldn't want to code on it several…

I think it's the best laptop for a management level person in engineering running from meeting to meeting who occasionally sits down to write some light code / test code that they are reviewing from others. Great screen, decentish (but not great) memory, and great battery life, all with the simplicity of a single cable connection for power/monitor/accessories. Best of all, it's fantastic traveling as it can be easily…

I could see that. My work machine is a 15" rMBP which is mainly used hooked to a keyboard and monitor. Even when not plugged in I enjoy coding on it. Thing was, it was just big enough that I disliked lugging it around everywhere, back & forth to home, when traveling, etc.

For me my rMB is more for personal and light remote work purposes but that winds up being not dissimilar to your engineering mgmt persona you describe and I find it great for all of those reasons.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#135

Post by spilk » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:06 PM UTC

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing.

The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I could physically plug in a Thunderbolt 3-only device, it wouldn't function at all.

Thunderbolt 3 is backward compatible with Thunderbolt 1/2 via an adapter, but the Thunderbolt 2 adapter that Apple sells does not function identically to a Thunderbolt 2 port on previous generation Macs - e.g. you cannot plug a Mini DisplayPort display into it. Thunderbolt displays do work with it though.

Also, the lower-end 12" MacBook that Apple sells with a single USB-C port is NOT a Thunderbolt 3 port, so you have to know which devices that have identical connectors will work with it. Apple makes the distinction on its peripherals by screenprinting a little Thunderbolt logo onto the cable/connector housing. The messaging was reinforced with corresponding Thunderbolt logos next to the connectors on previous iterations of the MacBooks - making it obvious that these ports were not just Mini DisplayPorts but also Thunderbolt ports - but the new 2016 models don't appear to have anything like that on the hardware.

Additionally, there are USB-C cables and Thunderbolt 3 cables. Thunderbolt 3 cables are apparently higher-spec and will always work as USB-C cables, but the opposite is not necessarily true.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#136

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

bpicolo wrote: post #128

at-fates-hands wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WOW. I could spec out a laptop (pick a vendor) with a 500SSD, i7, 32GB RAM and still be under 2K. I don't want to say their hardware is overpriced. . .but they're stuff is WAY over priced. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ZBook-Studio-G3-15-6-Core-i7-2-7G... $1,350.00 - HP ZBook Studio G3 - 15.6" - Core i7 2.7GHz (6th Gen) - 32GB RAM - 512GB SSD (M6V80AV) It's a dealer refurb, but still. . .

That said, 16 GB is sadly the norm. Dell XPS 15 caps there too. What the hell is going on here, though? Two different XPS 15 product pages: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la... http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd From the former, you can't even get to a 16GB laptop, despite the same price points. What the hell is up with that? They target consumers with a crappier box at…

Dell sells laptops that support higher caps.

Apple does not. The issue is that consumers are limited by what Apple sells if they are reliant on MacOS. There is no competition for MacOS laptops.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#137

Post by paublyrne » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:11 PM UTC

thought_alarm wrote: post #81

mmjaa wrote: post #19

I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been…

How do you deal with the arrow keys? I like the feel of the keyboard, but I found absolutely no way to orient my fingers over the arrow keys. There is no way tell whether I'm hitting the up arrow or the right shift. As someone who works with text, it's a deal breaker for me.

I hadn't really used the cursors until now so I thought I would check. I agree with you, they're very awkward. When I press the left my brain then expects that the up and down keys will be the same size key, and I end up hitting the shift.

I seldom use the keys in day to day typing, so it's not a big issue, but they feel very wrong.

Apart from that the keyboard has grown on me, but I have changed my style to type much more lightly, partially because of how noisy the keyboard is.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#138

Post by RandomOpinion » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #19

I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been…

>binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user

I've seen a lot of people say this but I dunno. I'm kind of leery of doing something that would cause me to develop problematic muscle memory when typing on normal keyboards, e.g. on other people's machines. I have enough trouble flipping between Mac and Windows keyboard shortcuts already.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#139

Post by mgkimsal » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

timemachiner wrote: post #119

Mine is 15", 16GB, 512G, 455 model. I'm a student and use it for programming, checking emails and browsing sites. I program in Java using Eclipse and in Python using Jupyter Notebook. I browse using Safari and keep tabs of time estimates in the Activity Monitor Energy tab. First 2-3 days I was getting 5 hour estimates. Since then it increased to 8-10 and now has increased to 14.5 hours. I keep it unplugged for 6 hour…

I had one for about 10 days, and do java dev (intellij/jetbrains stuff).

I got 5-6 hours, then did the 10.12.2 update, and initially battery estimate went up a lot (15-16 hours initially) but it would ramp down sharply when real work was being done. I was seeing ~10% of the battery drain in an hour, meaning I probably could have done 9.5 hours of moderate work. Heavy duty dev (java/compiling, etc) I probably would have got at least 6 hours, maybe a bit more.... but I took mine back. Nice as it was, the price was just a bit hard to swallow relative to performance - was not really expecting 1% diff from 2015 model. I have a 2012 model, so it was faster than mine, but I'm looking at getting a 2015 and saving $1000.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#140

Post by mmjaa » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

RandomOpinion wrote: post #138

mmjaa wrote: post #19

I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been…

> binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user I've seen a lot of people say this but I dunno. I'm kind of leery of doing something that would cause me to develop problematic muscle memory when typing on normal keyboards, e.g. on other people's machines. I have enough trouble flipping between Mac and Windows keyboard shortcuts already.

I have suffered from RSI for some decades and one thing that helps alleviate it is to change my keyboard every 6 months or so .. and in that light, this change has actually been quite smooth for me. I've gotten used to it in a week, and will probably adopt it as standard from here on out, anyway ..