Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 1001 posts

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#271

Post by Cederfjard »

jd0 wrote: post #247
yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

To clarify for many of you, you don't need someone shouting "I HATE WOMEN" for sexism to be occurring. The sexism in this scenario is subtle and persistent, something that likely tainted all of the workplace interactions at github, allowing a female employee's problems at work to be continually ignored. This eventually built up to the issue most people are focusing on, a founders spouse being allowed to harass an emp…

> The hula hooping moment was important because it visibly demonstrated her male coworkers lack of respect for women as people. They were unabashedly staring at their female coworkers as "eyecandy" in that moment and even defended their doing so.

I have never understood how this argument works, obviously I'm missing something. Because I momentarily focus my attention on someone for their physical attributes, I automatically and necessarily consider them "eyecandy" rather than intelligent people with their own will that are to be respected? Does this work with other attributes - if I appreciate and acknowledge someone for X, does that mean that X is all they ever are to me? If the male employees had put on an impromptu bodybuilding pageant, would that have been the same thing?

Naturally, the fact that the woman in question was actually disturbed by the situation does indicate that there is cause for concern.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#272

Post by kdragon »

enneff wrote: post #209
csense wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you making excuses for these people? What purpose does it serve? Because I think people should question whether they're overreacting to the situation. > I'm especially shocked to see you trivialise the actions of the jilted engineer I edited to clarify this. Careful reading shows that: (1) It is possible that there were legitimate technical reasons for the reverted commits. (2) It is possible that Github di…

> I think it is difficult to say that Github is at fault from the information given, and I fear that's the conclusion that many were jumping to. Don't worry. Read the whole thread on this discussion. The only people who are jumping to conclusions are those assuming there is something wrong with Horvath's story. I have thought carefully about the article, and this is my conclusion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

> Second-guessing the motives and truth of this woman's story does nothing but undermine her, and undermine the confidence of others who may have similar stories (at GitHub or elsewhere).

What the heck are you talking about? The story is hearsay at this point and armchair warriors are jumping to conclusions behind the anonymity of the internet.

Second-guessing the motives and truth? Do you work at Github? Is this person your co-worker?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#273

Post by m_c »

sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

I think the article you mention is Ben Horowitz's blog on 'How to Minimize Politics in Your Company'[1]. It's a great read and also has advice for CEOs dealing with disputes between executives.

[1] http://www.bhorowitz.com/how_to_minimize_politics_in_your_co...

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#274

Post by shin_lao »

[deleted] wrote: post #154

[deleted]

The fact that he needs help, doesn't remove the harm done by his actions.

As a manager, I've witnessed a "harmless young man" bullying a young woman. Her manager didn't believe her and said something like you did "come on, you're good looking, he just has a thing for you".

She wasn't on my team so the only thing I could do is talk to my peer and he told me "don't worry, I'm on it".

It ended up with the "harmless young man" going crazy in her office, insulting her, saying she was worthless, that her work was shit, etc. (disciplinary action was taken as a result of this, fortunately).

There's no such thing as "harmless young men" (or women for that instance). There is what is acceptable at work and what is unacceptable and the tolerance policy for unacceptable work behavior must be nothing short of zero.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#275

Post by peterjancelis »

lancewiggs wrote: post #234
MarkTee wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the day-to-day is like at GitHub, but if people were hula-hooping to music at my place of work, I'd probably be pretty interested in watching them too (male or female).

It's not what or whether they were watching, it's how they were watching. It's a judgement call but pretty easy to tell if a group is leering or just watching friends have fun.

Even more so, it is the sexual attractiveness of the guys who are watching.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#277

Post by gametheoretic »

devnonymous wrote: post #261
gametheoretic wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be more than tempted. To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or blog post about sexism in tech. If programmers with a Y-chromosome are exponentially less likely to either sue us or get us labelled sexist jerks in the press, then that's who we're hiring.

"To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or newspaper report about a shootout or burglary in the community. If people with a white bloodline are statistically less likely to either rob us or get us labelled racists jerks in the press, than that's who we're hirig." -- do you now see what's wrong with this kind of thinking ?

No, because I read 1000x times more of the one than of the other, and I personally see and experience one and not the other. That you'd even bring up the comparison makes me think you're not taking this seriously, as a reality to deal with and not an internet crusade.

Read the statement again. I'm not laying blame on any party. I am only taking the position that whatever the cause is, I don't know any better than anyone else how to avoid it.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#278

Post by hueving »

jd0 wrote: post #247
yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

To clarify for many of you, you don't need someone shouting "I HATE WOMEN" for sexism to be occurring. The sexism in this scenario is subtle and persistent, something that likely tainted all of the workplace interactions at github, allowing a female employee's problems at work to be continually ignored. This eventually built up to the issue most people are focusing on, a founders spouse being allowed to harass an emp…

>allowing a female employee's problems at work to be continually ignored.

Who is to say that it was only a female employee's problems? It sounds like the wife is a nut case and she could very well have bothered other employees. There is no evidence here that her requests were being ignored because she is a female.

>The hula hooping moment was important because it visibly demonstrated her male coworkers lack of respect for women as people.

Are you serious? Is it really the case that you have no respect for a person if you watch them performing a sporting activity? If I start juggling and someone watches me, I highly doubt that it's because he/she has a lack of respect for me as a person.

Seriously, read what you just said. It implies that you cannot watch people performing an activity while respecting their autonomy.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#280

Post by Crito »

enneff wrote: post #220
[deleted] wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> Men are worse than women at being able to effectively mediate conflicts between two members of the opposite sex. The poor emotionally-unequipped male is powerless to do anything! Do you realise how absurd this sounds?

Hmm, I read his comment more as stating a case for the value of diversity in leadership, not as a tone-deaf plea for pity.
Post reply on HN