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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point of GDP as a metric then? Who is the economy serving? Why have an economy if it's not improving quality of life to some extent. GDP is most often used by the government of a single country to measure its economic health. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

There are a bunch of benefits of having economic power that doesn't relate to happiness. Power projection and resilience to hard times are some of them.

You injected the word "happiness" I did not.

All the tings you mentioned still should have a meaning, positive impact on the lives of the populace.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#272
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it did US life expectancy wouldn't lower today than it was in 2008.

That’s mostly due to obesity, which is a consequence of the quantity and (flavor) quality of food getting better over time; a side effect of economic prosperity.

If food is killing more people than it used to that's not an improvement in food.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#273
post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#274
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. " Still, if PPP GDP increases, with all else being equal (eg. stable population) it would imply the standard of living is increasing. That is why PPP GDP captures a more accurate measure of the real world. Said another way, what truly matters isn't "GDP growth", but changes in purchasing power/quality of life.

PPP is a misleading figure. If your PPP-adjusted income is 2 times higher than someone's else does it mean that you can buy 2 times more MacBooks or trips to Korea?

> PPP is a misleading figure. If your PPP-adjusted income is 2 times higher than someone's else does it mean that you can buy 2 times more MacBooks or trips to Korea?

You're looking for "discretionary income" minus groceries (not to be confused with disposable income), because GDP does not tell you that (PPP adjusted or not) and PPP adjusted income doesn't tell you that either. Also you kind of made a jump from (per capita) GDP to income, which is related, but not the same thing.

To answer your question: In your example it may either be more or less, because PPP really does not say much for anything but your chosen basket of goods.

Example: Person A earns $2000 and spends $750 to meet standard of living X, while another person B also earns $2000 but has to spend $1500 to meet that same standard.

Adjusted for PPP using that standard of living/basket of goods X, Person A earns twice as much.

Let's assume that MacBooks and trips to Korea generally cost the same for both people. Person B has $500 left over to pay for such things, while Person A has $1250 left - more than twice!

I easily could have chosen numbers such that it was less than twice. I could also have chosen them such that one person, while appearing richer purely based on non-adjusted income, can in fact afford less of everything. Obviously you can also make it so that one person can afford less luxuries than the other despite appearing richer adjusted for PPP.

You can try to fix this by making any luxuries you're interested in part of your basket of goods. While you're still comparing an entire basket, at least you'll know how often each person could purchase that entire basket compared to each other.

The point I'm trying to make is that while you still have to be careful to understand what PPP adjusted numbers are telling you, non-adjusted numbers aren't any better and in fact are probably more misleading for what you appear to be interested in.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#275

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

What's the point of living an extra few years either? I'd rather die at 70 after having lived a healthy life, than 80 and suffered the last 10 years

Low life average life expectancy is usually caused by people dying young. Gun violence, automobile accidents, obesity, an opioid epidemic…

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#276
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. " Still, if PPP GDP increases, with all else being equal (eg. stable population) it would imply the standard of living is increasing. That is why PPP GDP captures a more accurate measure of the real world. Said another way, what truly matters isn't "GDP growth", but changes in purchasing power/quality of life.

>> it would imply the standard of living is increasing. In USA, GDP includes the explosion of numbers of hospital admin staffers, energy prices doubled, and production of munitions which are given to Europe. That GDP does not increase my quality of life.

Interestingly it probably does not increase the quality of life for most of those hospital employees either by all that much, except the very upper management.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#278

Apple was worth 2 trillion last year. This year it's worth 3 trillion. Five years ago, there had never been a US company worth 1 trillion before. Something is broken.

Apple's P/E is around 30. Which is a bit high but completely within reason. Very low compared to inflated stocks such as NVDA at 230 P/E Apple is just crazy profitable.

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#279

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

That’s a poor metric. The USA offers you more potential. It’s up to you.

The USA also has a higher percentage of young people and more of them are dying from drugs. That skews a metric line that. Do it by cohort and it’s different.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The evidence is math. If there are 101 people, 100 making 101 sandwich per year and 1 doing nothing, and everyone needs 100 sandwiches per year, 99% are contributing more than they take. This works the other way too.

You are talking about economic output, and I agree it is very difficult for someone to be a net negative in this metric (someone would have to contribute almost nothing to the economy and take what they need to survive as donation). We are talking about a tax system with contributions and expenses. In this system, less than 50% are net contributors.

What are you talking about? The above system is 1% tax on everyone who makes something, and all expenses go to hit minimum 100 sandwiches for everyone. Clearly 99% are net contributors.
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