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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#111

Post by flangola7 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #101
mrb wrote: post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

We don't care about size of economy, we care about aspects of daily life of the average person.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#113

Post by dougmwne »

rafaelero wrote: post #108
futureshock wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…

In a developed country, low-skilled labor will be a net negative even if well integrated. That's the definition of being below the average of the recipient country.

In the US, the immigrant labor does not stay low skilled for long or was never low skilled in the first place. See: tech company CEOs

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#114

Post by xxpor »

rafaelero wrote: post #108
futureshock wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…

In a developed country, low-skilled labor will be a net negative even if well integrated. That's the definition of being below the average of the recipient country.

Evidence?

Evidence against: https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/mariel-impact.pdf

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#115

Post by tnel77 »

freetime2 wrote: post #99
mrb wrote: post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

Thank you. Twitter is terrible when it comes to cherry picking stats out of context.

Ironically posted as a reply to a comment cherry picking stats.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#116

Post by rafaelero »

mrtksn wrote: post #46

IMHO the west as a whole will need to re-consider its metrics. Europe, not only Eurozone, lag in absolute numbers of economic activity but the life quality is not that different from the US and arguably it’s even better depending on what is important for you. An appendicitis generates more economic activity in the US but Europeans die les from it. On the other hand, Europe does lag on post soviet era tech(that’s anyt…

Nobody said GDP equals quality of life, what are you talking about?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#117

Post by philwelch »

lyu07282 wrote: post #98
futureshock wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…

The US’s secret sauce is that is an empire that can, will and does constantly project its massive military and clandestine power around the world to further its interests at all times, while never having to deal with any of its blowback. And then americans laugh at the EU welcoming refugees you created in the first place, or pretend the EU is socialist while laughing at its massive energy crisis caused by its complet…

> We are ruled by atlanticist neoliberals you put there in the first place.

And who exactly was running continental Europe before that?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#118

Post by sangnoir »

Alupis wrote: post #95
tivert wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A rising tide obviously raises all ships, including the nation's poorest. To throw a wrench in that tired metaphor: a rising tide may raise all ships, but a fat lot of good that does to the poor, if it's only the well-of that can afford to buy a boat.

You're missing the point. Even the poor do better when there's more jobs available, more job mobility, more housing, more stores, etc. All things that are created by wealthy companies and individuals. Everyone, including our poorest, benefit from a growing economy. We just have to examine our average poverty-level person, and compare them to poverty-level persons of other nations to understand this point.

> Even the poor do better when there's more jobs available

Only if those jobs offer a livable wage. If instead they are McJobs that result in workers spending more than they earn (e.g. SNAP), then poor people are doing worse, and it's a net-negative on society.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#119

Post by _Parfait_ »

flangola7 wrote: post #111
dogma1138 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

We don't care about size of economy, we care about aspects of daily life of the average person.

..Ok but we're talking about the size of the economy you do know that right? Did you read even the headline?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#120

Post by dogma1138 »

aaomidi wrote: post #107
dogma1138 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

Completely depends on what you’re measuring. To me, economy isn’t an abstract thing to be measured without taking people’s quality of life into perspective. That just feels too much like stats for the sake of stats. The PPP based measurement is way more interesting.

Again PPP cannot by definition used to measure growth.

It has limited applications for developing economies and measuring AIC which it was initially conceived.

Here is a good breakdown of what it is, how it’s constructed and more importantly what it can and cannot measure.

https://www.oecd.org/sdd/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparities-...

Regardless of how you slice it the national purchasing power of the US has doubled since 2008 whilst the EU’s has stagnated.

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