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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#271

Post by kevinali1 »

vidarh wrote: post #248
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I'm 47, and have never bothered getting a drivers license because I've always lived places where the combination of public transport with fallback to taxis has been good enough. Add on Uber and equivalent, and my need for cars is lower than ever. If I'd lived somewhere a car was needed, I'd have learned. It's not an ideological opposition to cars by any means. Occasionally I consider getting a drivers license, and th…

While I totally agree with this, I think you should still get a drivers license. There's always a very real possibility that you may need to drive a car in some sort of emergency.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#272

Post by bluGill »

lnsru wrote: post #90
runako wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries... Fully expecting that comment, and I look forward to that person describing how they take an elderly parent to the doctor on a bike…

That’s perfect case for a taxi. However I love cars and just playing devil’s advocate here.

The cost of a taxi ride is not affordable if you need to make that type of trip often. Paying $40 for a ride once or twice a year is okay, but if you need to make a weekly trip to the doctor, plus get groceries and go to church on Sunday - a brand new car is now cheaper (a brand new car is very expensive, most people drive older used cars that are a lot cheaper)

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#273

Post by PartiallyTyped »

rootusrootus wrote: post #210
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that car ownership is related to poverty or absence of disposable income. In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one. Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament that young people dont want to be in the grip of petrol companies or owning a car as they are no…

> Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament ... that the Internet is dominated by the small niche of loud people who think other people want to hear their opinion. That's it. Anybody who is not deep inside the Reddit (and HN, for that matter) bubble can quickly appreciate how dissimilar the viewpoints on Reddit are from the real world.

Yes, most people are lurkers. That doesn't mean that lurkers can't show their presence with interactions in the form of up or downvotes or that the different subreddits, hashtags, and so on aren't a mirror of the user base.

Now, I understand your cynicism, but you'd be naive to believe that small pockets of change are not happening. But then again, what does a European know about European cities?

Anyhow, I found this somewhere on HN, I am certain you will enjoy the irony.

> everyone is preening, bragging, trying to seem better than you, claiming to have the moral high ground, or the only correct answer.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#274

Post by chasely »

JustARandomGuy wrote: post #3

Millennial: same feeling here. When I talk to people of my parents generation they always talk about how cars let them roam about and give them freedom. I never felt the same way, and I think a large part of that is that I grew up with the Internet; I could always AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) my friends or use ICQ. I was always connected even during an era of dialup. With the always-on functionality of modern phones,…

Exploring by car is a reaction to how communities of our parent's generation were built. Live in a single family zoned suburb where you can't walk to anything? Of course you're going to end up exploring by car and "getting away".

I'm an older millennial but enjoy living in a community where I only have to get into a car a couple times a week, but can spend the reset of the time walking or biking around my community.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#276

Post by randomdata »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

But then why would they have no money? Their parents are rich (per the article) and they're young (high school age) so we should be able to assume that their basic costs are funded by those rich parents.

Is it because of this intense fear of getting a job that was starting to emerge when I was young and seems to have really taken off since?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#277

Post by wkat4242 »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

The problem in the Netherlands is the peripheral connections. Transport between the cities is great. Inside them also. Suburban areas are crap though. In my town my house 15km from the city center of Amsterdam had a bus one time per hour. And really unreliable, often wouldn't appear etc. Walking to the train station was possible but 20 minutes.

This makes any trip much more difficult. Anyway I had to have the car for work. I hated that thing and the consultancy job.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#278

Post by armchairhacker »

BizarreByte wrote: post #71
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that car ownership is related to poverty or absence of disposable income. In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one. Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament that young people dont want to be in the grip of petrol companies or owning a car as they are no…

> In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one. You can get away without one, that is if you don’t mind sharing transit with violent junkies in any North American city. Transit can be down right terrifying to use these days.

It depends.

Anecdotally, in Boston the MBTA is one of the "falling apart" systems. I could still rely on it to commute to my college / job, and the worst that has happened was sometimes being late due to delays. There are certainly a lot of sketchy people, but I have never seen someone attacked or have anything stolen or been harassed myself - then again I am a man and I'm certain it's different for women.

But more importantly, when living in Boston I never had to use the train. Only when commuting. Because when I lived in Boston everything was at most a 3 mile walk. Even in the really bad weather I could layer up still get places without public transit.

Now I'm in a less urban area but it's the same: I don't have a car and rarely end up using transit / Lyft. I do get groceries and things delivered though, but my job and everything else is within walking distance.

I still agree it would be a lot better if public transit was more reliable, but I think many people in cities can be well-off without a car. Not anecdotally I know that most of the college students in Boston don't have a car (especially because there is basically no parking...)

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#279

Post by nradov »

ghaff wrote: post #246
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I think a lot of younger people who choose to live in a city, especially new grads, are essentially continuing their college experience. A lot of friends probably live in the city too. They can often bum transportation/do joint activities from friends who do own cars and are mostly fine with minimizing out of city activities that require a car. They also restrict themselves to jobs they can easily get to. Which in te…

Wow. That seems such a sad and limiting way to live your life. I love how I can use my cars to go anywhere at any time without depending on anyone else. And my family and I do a lot of optional activities. Different perspective, I guess.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#280

Post by rr808 »

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I think flying is so cheap and ubiquitous now it makes a big difference. 30-40 years ago if you wanted to go away for vacation you probably drove, where now people often fly several times a year.
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