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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#71

Post by BizarreByte »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #59
benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

I don’t think that car ownership is related to poverty or absence of disposable income. In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one. Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament that young people dont want to be in the grip of petrol companies or owning a car as they are no…

> In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one.

You can get away without one, that is if you don’t mind sharing transit with violent junkies in any North American city. Transit can be down right terrifying to use these days.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#72

Post by yourusername »

seydor wrote: post #41
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

Why would so many people need to move between Amsterdam and Hague in the first place

The job market in the Netherlands is very flexible and the housing market is very inflexible. It's not financially feasible for most people to move for a job every few years. Especially to the Amsterdam region where you would need to be on a waiting list for a decade for social housing or make ~2x national average to even think of moving there.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#73

Post by JansjoFromIkea »

Probably depends a lot on where you want to live and where you will live.

Where I live now it'd be madness to want a car, just a huge obligation to take care of with very little use. Decent chance I'll feel a bit different when I buy a place and am living in an area with much less frequent public transport options (but much more space to just leave a car sitting).

I would rather stay where I am than move out to somewhere like that though; and I don't think I'd ever see it as a positive trade beyond the ownership vs rental aspect.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#74

Post by runako »

nostromo123 wrote: post #69
runako wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentle reminder that a significant portion of society is not able to carry out trips on bikes due to infirmity, disability, or needing to convey someone who cannot bike (e.g. small children).

I agree, but in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries... For my family it's not even about the physical aspect, but about time. I don't want to waste my free time going to and from places in 2x/3x the time it takes by car.

> in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries...

Fully expecting that comment, and I look forward to that person describing how they take an elderly parent to the doctor on a bike…

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#75

Post by sva_ »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

There's also a nice section of the beach in that general area where you can drive your car all the way to the beach with ocean view at no parking fee.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#76

Post by fundad »

digdugdirk wrote: post #50
galangalalgol wrote: post #11

The article specifies rich, maybe beacuse, at least in the US, only the rich can afford to live in places where cars aren't strictly necessary? Some choose to live elsewhere anyway, for scenery or privacy, but the poor or even median 60% can't choose an area with a 15 minute walk to necessities. The Seattle walkability map on hn recently highlighted that fairly well I think? I also wonder if it is truly cars or just…

I'd also be curious to see an inflation adjusted cost of use+ownership model for the average car owner. Cars are getting more complicated, and manufacturers are almost forcing owners to take them to a dealership for any kind of service. I'm generally handy and usually perform my own maintenance on my vehicles. As such, I tend to drive 10-20 year old Japanese vehicles. I remember once when I confidently told my partne…

Exactly, previous generations had more of our income to spend.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#77

Post by lnsru »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

I absolutely share your opinion. There is no money left for a car after paying all the bills in euro inflation zone. 200€ just to own something, another 100€ insurance with maintenance and the insanely expensive fuel on top. Let’s say 150€ when car is used occasionally.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#78

Post by Animatronio »

scatters wrote: post #54
kensai wrote: post #27

I really wished this demonisation of the car stopped. Modern cars are way more climate friendly than merely 10-20 years ago and many climate-conscious persons do pool to commute. But we need to understand. There are cases where the car is a must. Unavoidable. Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological dise…

Imagine having a neurological disease or some other disability that means that you can't drive .

Well, my mom has Parkinson's. Can't walk/bike/take public transport anywhere so I have to drive her around (mainly to therapy). How could I possibly manage without a car?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#79

Post by smaudet »

Ekaros wrote: post #55
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

That is optimal situation. But it does breakdown or be worse with slightly more complicated routes. Like I used to travel from smaller city to bigger city to other big city. And in the end public transport was probably 50% if not longer in time. First 15-20 minutes to station, then 45 minutes with local train. Wait for intercity, ~2 hours and 30 minutes or get lift to destination. Compared to straight 2 hours from do…

Sure in the case of long commutes or exploration of different areas there are certain advantaged to autonomous vehicles - however the car is by no means king. Helicopter is even better for getting from random distant location to distant location.

But this is not the majority of travel, and in those cases car travel is indeed overkill, and a hassle to boot, as anyone who has ever had to daily wrangle with parking lots and rush hour traffic can attest.

There are different concerns with public transport, but the advantages tend to outweigh the disadvantages, and it appears this is borne out by the data.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#80

Post by BizarreByte »

Spooky23 wrote: post #8

Cars are falling out of love with them. How is one expected to pay for a $1500/mo apartment and a $40k car on a $60k salary?

You don’t have to spend 40k on a car. My Toyota was 22k overall and the monthly payments are very manageable. You can still get new cars for under 20k and good used cars for much less.
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