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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#51

Post by david-gpu »

moffkalast wrote: post #34
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

The problem with that is the part where you need to get to and from the train station to your actual destination, which could be on the very other side of town. It can be solved with shuttles or taxis, but that adds even more complexity and annoyance than just driving directly, especially with luggage.

Bike sharing services are great in those situations. You don't even need to carry your bike in the train. There is also public transit like trams and buses.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#52

Post by seydor »

I expect in the future cars will be used for fewer but longer trips. Commuting to work should not be a thing, and most cities will adapt to the new reality where the home is also the office.

On the other hand people will seek better living quality in less dense areas and this makes the car necessary, however infrequently. Maybe the news of their demise is greatly exaggerated

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#53

Post by nfriedly »

I'm not sure if I still qualify as young, but yeah, I have no love of cars. I prefer bicycling and trains. (Or just walking for sufficiently short trips.)

Cars are a necessary evil in my life for the moment, but I hope for a future where that "necessary" part goes away.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#54

Post by scatters »

kensai wrote: post #27

I really wished this demonisation of the car stopped. Modern cars are way more climate friendly than merely 10-20 years ago and many climate-conscious persons do pool to commute. But we need to understand. There are cases where the car is a must. Unavoidable. Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological dise…

Imagine having a neurological disease or some other disability that means that you can't drive.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#55

Post by Ekaros »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

That is optimal situation.

But it does breakdown or be worse with slightly more complicated routes. Like I used to travel from smaller city to bigger city to other big city. And in the end public transport was probably 50% if not longer in time. First 15-20 minutes to station, then 45 minutes with local train. Wait for intercity, ~2 hours and 30 minutes or get lift to destination. Compared to straight 2 hours from door to door with car.

And this is with perfectly serviceable train network with plenty enough trains. Or at max capacity.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#56

Post by dsfyu404ed »

revscat wrote: post #30
Spooky23 wrote: post #8

Cars are falling out of love with them. How is one expected to pay for a $1500/mo apartment and a $40k car on a $60k salary?

The average American spends $3000 a year on gas. Imagine if you didn’t have to do that.

I do ~23000mi/yr (way above average) commuting at 23mpg (somewhat below average) and gas here is about $3/gal (average) so I pay about $3k/yr. I am nowhere near typical. There is no way the average American pays that much for just gas unless the source is doing some slight of hand.

Obviously I pay more than $3k/yr after you include other expenses but still, few are buying that much fuel.

I used to take the train when I worked downtown and @$350/mo or $4200/yr for a pass (which also covers the subway and buses) it's basically a break even vs driving.

Medium distance rail and bus needs to get a hell of a lot better for it to actually be cheaper for the average person in practice.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#57

Post by imgabe »

It's like the Yogi Berra saying: Nobody drives, there's too much traffic.

I mostly gave up a car living in Washington, DC. I still had one, but only because my apartment had free parking. It came in handy for occasional work trips and road trips, but day-to-day I walked or biked almost everywhere.

Yet, the main reason it was not useful was because the roads were so packed with traffic, at almost all hours of the day, that it was nearly impossible to drive anywhere. Let alone find somewhere to park that wouldn't charge you $20.

If enough people fall out of love with cars, maybe it driving will become attractive again.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#58

Post by unsupp0rted »

mightybyte wrote: post #49
galangalalgol wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a real city? I live in one of 20 biggest in the US, but even #2 LA is pretty hard to get around without a car. My experience in traveling has been that places where carless transportation is easy, are places I can only afford to visit, not live.

I think this is a common misconception. People say this about NYC, but it's simply not true. I have artist friends who live in NYC and make something like 30k / year. No, you probably won't be able to live in Manhattan with that kind of money but NYC is much bigger than Manhattan and it is still possible to live quite affordable and have access to the city's public transit and not need a car.

It's one thing to survive, it's another to thrive. Sure the wonder of living in NYC for some people is worth the lower comfort of daily life. I hate and avoid cars too and that alone is a major factor in where I choose to live.

But if they're living on $30k in NYC, do they share their home with one or more roommates? Could they handle a $500 unexpected expense or would it devastate them?

At some age you want to be able to live life a bit more comfortably than in your early 20s, say.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#59

Post by PartiallyTyped »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

I don’t think that car ownership is related to poverty or absence of disposable income. In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one.

Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament that young people dont want to be in the grip of petrol companies or owning a car as they are not sustainable, cause traffic, accidents, and on and on.

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