Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 835 posts

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#41

Post by seydor »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

Why would so many people need to move between Amsterdam and Hague in the first place

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#42

Post by swexbe »

galangalalgol wrote: post #19
TillE wrote: post #4

If you live in anything like a real city and don't absolutely need a car to commute, the misery of street parking alone vastly outweighs any kind of occasional benefit. But it's nice to have a license so you can rent a car if you really want to.

What is a real city? I live in one of 20 biggest in the US, but even #2 LA is pretty hard to get around without a car. My experience in traveling has been that places where carless transportation is easy, are places I can only afford to visit, not live.

If you don’t count the suburbs LA wouldn’t be anywhere close to #2.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#43

Post by paulcole »

I grew up in a very rural part of northern Florida. When I was 16 my parents said I’d have to learn how to drive so I could get to the job that I’d use to pay for a car.

I thought that was dumb and just decided to get by with less money and no car.

Throughout high school, I’d walk to the general store a mile away and that was about all I did other than go fishing (my favorite thing to do at the time). For a bit of money I tutored at school and tied flies (a fishing thing) for a local tackle shop.

In college I’d think nothing of walking 3-5 miles round trip for errands. Outside of peak school hours I was often the only person on the limited local bus system. I kept tutoring and writing grad school entrance essays for kids for money.

After college I moved to Portland, OR and still haven’t learned to drive (I’m 40 today). I walk and bike everywhere and take the bus once in awhile.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#44

Post by _dain_ »

moffkalast wrote: post #34
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

The problem with that is the part where you need to get to and from the train station to your actual destination, which could be on the very other side of town. It can be solved with shuttles or taxis, but that adds even more complexity and annoyance than just driving directly, especially with luggage.

Those cities have extensive networks of local rail, subway, trams, and buses. So "the other side of town" is easily reachable.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#46

Post by PaulHoule »

My son (20 yrs old) like driving but he doesn't like where new cars are going in becoming "phonish". He wants a 1970s boat of car but in a place with severe winters and road salt I think we are adding a 2000-2010 vintage asian car to the motor pool at the farm but the state of the car market is a little intimidating right now.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#47

Post by freddie_mercury »

galangalalgol wrote: post #11

The article specifies rich, maybe beacuse, at least in the US, only the rich can afford to live in places where cars aren't strictly necessary? Some choose to live elsewhere anyway, for scenery or privacy, but the poor or even median 60% can't choose an area with a 15 minute walk to necessities. The Seattle walkability map on hn recently highlighted that fairly well I think? I also wonder if it is truly cars or just…

The article cites national statistics.

Is your argument that those national statistics are being driven entirely by changes in rich cities?

That the changes in driving habits have been so large that it drags down the bottom 60%.

The article says that in 1997 43% of 16-year olds had a driver's licence but by 2020 it had fallee to 20%.

Since you're claiming that's entirely driven by the richest 40% let's do some simple math to quantify the implications of your claim.

If richest 40% of 16 year olds had 0 driver's licences... Not a single one in the entire country... Then the national rate would have fallen to 25% not 20%. So the richest 40% must actually have NEGATIVE driver's for the math to work out on your claim.

Or maybe it isn't just a phenomenon limited the rich places.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#48

Post by stouset »

seydor wrote: post #41
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

Why would so many people need to move between Amsterdam and Hague in the first place

They’re 37 miles apart.

Do you have idea how many Americans commute 37 miles each way, every single day?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#49

Post by mightybyte »

galangalalgol wrote: post #19
TillE wrote: post #4

If you live in anything like a real city and don't absolutely need a car to commute, the misery of street parking alone vastly outweighs any kind of occasional benefit. But it's nice to have a license so you can rent a car if you really want to.

What is a real city? I live in one of 20 biggest in the US, but even #2 LA is pretty hard to get around without a car. My experience in traveling has been that places where carless transportation is easy, are places I can only afford to visit, not live.

I think this is a common misconception. People say this about NYC, but it's simply not true. I have artist friends who live in NYC and make something like 30k / year. No, you probably won't be able to live in Manhattan with that kind of money but NYC is much bigger than Manhattan and it is still possible to live quite affordable and have access to the city's public transit and not need a car.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#50

Post by digdugdirk »

galangalalgol wrote: post #11

The article specifies rich, maybe beacuse, at least in the US, only the rich can afford to live in places where cars aren't strictly necessary? Some choose to live elsewhere anyway, for scenery or privacy, but the poor or even median 60% can't choose an area with a 15 minute walk to necessities. The Seattle walkability map on hn recently highlighted that fairly well I think? I also wonder if it is truly cars or just…

I'd also be curious to see an inflation adjusted cost of use+ownership model for the average car owner. Cars are getting more complicated, and manufacturers are almost forcing owners to take them to a dealership for any kind of service.

I'm generally handy and usually perform my own maintenance on my vehicles. As such, I tend to drive 10-20 year old Japanese vehicles. I remember once when I confidently told my partner that I'd swap their burnt out headlight bulb, no problem. Imagine my surprise when I found out that a 2010ish GM sedan recommended taking the front bumper off to access the headlight housing.

If every little thing that goes wrong requires a multi-hundred dollar maintenance bill at a minimum, it's no wonder people want a viable alternative.

Post reply on HN