President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#271

Post by origin_path » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #267

origin_path wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europeans and British can no longer live and work in their respective countries because of old mens ambitions" This is nonsense. There are millions of people from different European countries working in the UK, including new arrivals post-Brexit. Around half of women voted to leave the EU. One of the senior politicians who supported Vote Leave is a middle aged British Indian woman. https://www.statista.com/statistic…

The caveat is, you need to ask for permission from the government first, pay money and get processed. That’s the case for every country. Even North Koreans can work and live anywhere in the world if you choose to dismiss the difficulties.

Yes, everyone knows that which is why it's so ridiculous that you claimed otherwise. You shouldn't lie about the actual situation because you personally dislike Brexit, old men or both (not sure which). It's dishonorable.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#272

Post by Markoff » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #264

Markoff wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how Russian forces have various estimates, but for Ukrainian forces we take Ukraine data for granted, while the truth is both countries are highly likely downplaying their losses, same as both of their dictators are same corrupted thieves as proven in Pandora Papers last year when they were appearing together in all articles. Can't believe someone believes any data coming from these 3rd world countries.

Of course both sides have an interest in downplaying their losses, and exaggerating their victories. Do you think that reporters and conflict analysts aren't perfectly aware of this ancient fact?

Where are then US, UK and other countries estimates about Ukraine losses? Because they certainly aren't in linked Wikipedia article and all I can find in Google is just Ukrainian propaganda and few articles from Russian claims (which are on opposite side of spectrum, not thta those ridiculous US estimates would not be propaganda as well).

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#273

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #151

TillE wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "exit ramp" is that they withdraw from Ukraine, or at the very very least they withdraw to the lines that existed before 2022. I'm really not sure what else people who say this mean.

What I mean is that we need to use diplomacy to allow Russia a way to enter negotiations and stop the war while keeping a modicum of face. There is absolutely no chance Russia just leaves Ukraine on their own while saying "we have lost, we were bad and will now behave as you wish" so there would be little point insisting on that. If what we want is a come back to pre-invasion frontiers we need to give them a way to s…

If they did it in Afghanistan, utterly losing and achieving nothing (at least good for them), they can do it again. Especially if its all their fault and incompetence and self-caused harm. Why should rest of the world babysit some mobster maniac's ego so his feelings are not hurt when he is killing around is beyond me.

You understand he will do it again and again, until he cannot or he is dead. Lets work on the former part for now by draining his military of any capabilities.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#274

Post by _ph_ » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

SanjayMehta wrote: post #227

From where are people getting reliable updates on the ground situation? During the Gulf wars we would get all these "embedded" reporters; seems there aren't any now.

There are a lot of western reporters on the ground in the Ukraine. Sometimes more, sometimes less close to the front. One difference to earlier conflicts is, that many Ukrainians of course have smartphones and consequently can record pictures and videos. These can be cross checked by the reporters and immediately give detailed information.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#275

Post by AlfeG » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

leshenka wrote: post #164

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Russia appears to have 10x the casualties as Ukraine Reliable source? That isn't what I read anywhere from not-so-partial sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain...

Officials say there are close to 6k dead. Mobilization wants 300k recruits. This doesn't add up at all. Not sure about 10x casualties as Ukraine, but I'm sure it's 10x of what they're saying

Recruiting 300k and number of dead soldiers are not always correlate. It's amount of land to control and amount of soldiers required is in correlation. RF seems underestimate amount of soldiers need to control and protect land, they dropped lot of land and reduced length border to protect.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#276

Post by misiti3780 » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #25

yodsanklai wrote: post #13

Stupid question, but what does Putin want exactly? what will end the war?

Some sort of a stalemate which he can reasonably spin as a win. If not, he will be killed. Now its a life and death situation for him.

eh - who is going to kill him ? at this point, they would have done it already probably

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#277

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

lolc wrote: post #75

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more a political signal sent to the west. Russia was designing the war in Ukraine as a special operation. That put some limits on what they could officially do. With the referendum in Donetsk and Luhansk, Russia is reframing the conflict as happening on Russian soil. That allows them to declare it a war and open the door to nuclear retaliation. Mobilising and calling it a proxy war play with this line. It’s basi…

I don't think the signal was intended primarily for the international audience. Putin is under a lot of pressure from hawks in his own ranks to win this war. They were asking him why he isn't mobilising. And now they will be saying that it's not enough. I guess there won't be enough boots for the new conscripts, so this dynamic will be interesting to watch.

I really don't think he is facing any kind of true rivalry here. Read up a bit (ie [1] is fantastic since its from 2018 but still 100% valid) on the structures of power and ingrained potential (and limits) of corruption that he gives to those under him. Its not like there is any democracy, other hawks/oligarchs with big ego need to shut up and follow within their constraints or they are murdered or imprisoned, usually pretty visibly, sometimes with whole families.

He did it in very smart way, I leave him that (plenty of KGB experience to learn from). Hitler and other dictators were proper amateurs compared to how Russia is run today. Nobody on their own has enough power to stand against him. He has a separate branch of paramilitary forces (on top of Wagner, GRU and KGB forces) that answer only to him and is there only to protect him.

What it would require is massive conspiracy and cooperation of literally all of his underlings to topple him down, which is unrealistic to ever happen. Lone shooter/poison deliverer from his closest circle may have the best chance, but I presume he has multiple safeguards there too.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#278

Post by sam_lowry_ » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

audessuscest wrote: post #57

_V_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This morning, people already started to receive summons in person. Wow... That's actually quite terrifying how fast these things can go south.

these people are reservist. They knew and already accepted that this could happen

You know what? The majority of men in Russia are reservists.

You either served in the army or went through higher education and got away earning a leutenant rank along the way.

In reality, the state will call in all men between 20 and 27, sparing Moscow residents for the time being.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#279

Post by ptnxlo » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

sudhirj wrote: post #138

88840-8855 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s FACT: the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation. Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics. If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western sys…

More that sanctions or any other punishments must be focussed on the Putin regime and not the Russian population in general. And should end quickly if the regime changes.

Explain the difference between Putin's regime and the Russian population.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#280

Post by panick21_ » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

88840-8855 wrote: post #70

MasterYoda wrote: post #28

I really hope the russian/kreml/putin war against Ukraine will end in a epic failure for them. I also hope that frozen russian assets in west can be confiscated to build up Ukraine again, russia has to be accountable and pay for all madness and horrific things they have done.

Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s FACT: the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation. Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics. If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western sys…

So much the same old historical nonsense still being propagated by people.

> Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s

Germany was not humiliated. The terms imposed on Germany were not actually as bad, the idea that these were some horrible terms come from a few British intellectuals and German Foreign office.

Germany was treated with gloves of silk compared to how Germany treated France and Russia. But the fragile German ego couldn't handle it.

And of those terms imposed at Versailles Germany never even remotely payed any of it. I fact Germany took in more foreign loans then they ever paid back.

In the 20s Germany basically managed to negotiate all those debts away and before they even paid the little they had left, they stopped paying.

What was done to Germany after WW1 was NOT HARSH ENOUGH, and even what was agree on, was not enforced.

> Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics

Ask Estonia about how that.

> If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western system in 10 years.

They had an anti-western system for the waste majority of the last 300 years. If paying for their crimes with the London flats of of Russian oil millionaires then they will have to live with it.