Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff • Hacker News Board

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#271

Post by entangledqubit » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

PopAlongKid wrote: post #230

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #53

This bit from the employee announcement about how they're handling equity vesting [1] is worth highlighting as a pretty classy move, all things considered: > We’re waiving the one-year equity vesting cliff for all departing employees so that everyone has an opportunity to be a shareholder, regardless of your tenure. [...] All departing teammates will qualify for an extended option exercise period of 5 years, and we h…

> what they did here with the equity, especially the option exercise period, is a nice touch. But it's not all that great. Patreon is not publicly traded, so it seems likely that exercising any options will require cash up front, plus it will immediately trigger taxable compensation (income tax plus FICA). And how will the FMV be determined, if there is no public market trading? (ans.: usually just some number voted…

To me, this seems a little odd to complain about given that all those factors were true about the equity compensation when people signed on. The company didn't fundamentally do a bait and switch or change the rules.

Layoffs suck but I found the extended exercise windows and other benefits to be rather pleasantly responsible given the situation.

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#272

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #53

This bit from the employee announcement about how they're handling equity vesting [1] is worth highlighting as a pretty classy move, all things considered: > We’re waiving the one-year equity vesting cliff for all departing employees so that everyone has an opportunity to be a shareholder, regardless of your tenure. [...] All departing teammates will qualify for an extended option exercise period of 5 years, and we h…

[deleted]

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#273

Post by nraynaud » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:11 PM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #203

jrockway wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are probably a large number of HN readers that have weathered the dotcom bust, the 2008 financial crisis, and the 2022 financial crisis. If you were born 1980-ish and you haven't been laid off 3 times, congrats!

Or just work in startups. It's pretty easy to get laid off a lot if you work in startups. You join and know there is a ticking clock in the background. If you don't, you probably should. Every startup thinks they are the 1 out of 10 (because why wouldn't they, you have to.)

I agree, I have never actually been fired from a collapsing company, but as an intern I have been in the meeting room when a company was folded, and I have also seen a few companies collapse after I left. I'm a realy early guy, I tend to leave when the timesheet comes, so there is probably some runway left when I leave.

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#274

Post by princevegeta89 » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:12 PM UTC

vitiral wrote: post #70

ArchOversight wrote: post #52

This is somewhat meta, but linking to an instagram post is terrible, I get immediately redirected to a login page and can't even see the content on Instagram. I do not have an instagram account, nor do I want to create one just to see this. Was there no better place to link to?

https://blog.patreon.com/a-note-from-jack

Love it when companies and executives come with subtle titles like "A Note from XXXX", "A sad announcement", "Looking ahead into the future" etc. when they're nothing but just plain layoff notices.

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#275

Post by mabbo » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:12 PM UTC

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #53

This bit from the employee announcement about how they're handling equity vesting [1] is worth highlighting as a pretty classy move, all things considered: > We’re waiving the one-year equity vesting cliff for all departing employees so that everyone has an opportunity to be a shareholder, regardless of your tenure. [...] All departing teammates will qualify for an extended option exercise period of 5 years, and we h…

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but since the equity is all options, doesn't that imply that they're making it easier for people to give them money?

Yes, sure, they have to dilute the company a bit by creating more stocks for the people buying it, but if your company is in enough trouble that you're laying off 1 in 6 employees, it seems financially wise to effectively be doing many small rounds of fundraising this way. It extends your runway some small amount.

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#276

Post by harerazer » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

flavmartins wrote: post #164

rmah wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you stop at #2... 1) you won't attract any follow-on investment capital; 2) your original investor will be angry that you're sitting on a pile of money that is doing nothing; 3) you will likely grow slower than your other competitors. in some markets, this is death, in other markets, this is fine. Patreon had nearly 500 staff before layoffs. Now has about 400 staff. You may have a hard time understanding w…

+1 That's just not how VCs work. Basically it's you HAVE to always show hockey stick growth. Steady 5-10% per year isn't good enough. It has to grow exponentially. So that's why you keep hiring and keep spreading out the service into a whole bunch of other areas.

I’m just going to point out that growing 10% per year is actually exponential growth

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#277

Post by ftufek » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #275

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #53

This bit from the employee announcement about how they're handling equity vesting [1] is worth highlighting as a pretty classy move, all things considered: > We’re waiving the one-year equity vesting cliff for all departing employees so that everyone has an opportunity to be a shareholder, regardless of your tenure. [...] All departing teammates will qualify for an extended option exercise period of 5 years, and we h…

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but since the equity is all options , doesn't that imply that they're making it easier for people to give them money ? Yes, sure, they have to dilute the company a bit by creating more stocks for the people buying it, but if your company is in enough trouble that you're laying off 1 in 6 employees, it seems financially wise to effectively be doing many small rounds of fundraising this…

Only if you exercise the options, you won't exercise the options if it's not profitable to you.

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#278

Post by time_to_smile » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:16 PM UTC

Shindi wrote: post #94

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mid-November through December is a hiring no-man's land due to the accumulation of end-of-year vacations and family trips. Most of these employees have about a month and a half before the shutdown begins and they are stuck scrambling to try to find work in the new year.

This is pure negativity and not true. Hiring might slow down because of seasonality overall, but I was hired the last two times end of year. It's a great time to get new employees ramped up when things are slower. A polite reminder that some companies are growing really fast and are even struggling with hiring.

I would think the impending collapse of the tech sector might be a bigger concern, but I think there's still plenty of time for people getting laid off right now.

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#279

Post by mabbo » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:17 PM UTC

ftufek wrote: post #277

mabbo wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but since the equity is all options , doesn't that imply that they're making it easier for people to give them money ? Yes, sure, they have to dilute the company a bit by creating more stocks for the people buying it, but if your company is in enough trouble that you're laying off 1 in 6 employees, it seems financially wise to effectively be doing many small rounds of fundraising this…

Only if you exercise the options, you won't exercise the options if it's not profitable to you.

Ah, that's a good point. It's sort of the opposite: now the option holder can wait longer to decide if this is a worthwhile investment, vs "You have 30 days to exercise this or you get nothing".

Re: Patreon Lays off 17% of Staff

#280

Post by TheCondor » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

cmeacham98 wrote: post #214

rdl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main significance here is "please hire the people we're letting go as if they were normal Patreon employees you'd want to poach; they weren't let go for performance or other individual reasons".

This is what a layoff means no? My understanding was "Fired = Your Fault" and "Laid Off = Your Employer's Fault". Is it possible to be "laid off" for performance reasons?

Yeah, absolutely.

A company finds itself in a situation where it needs to reduce headcount for reasons. Do you a) just role the dice and randomly pick who goes? or b) Have managers rank their performers and use it to get rid of the lower performers or protect their most valuable people? In a case like this is means some variation of "you're too expensive for what you do for us."