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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#271

Post by KarlKemp »

louhike wrote: post #118

Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I always attributed that to growing up in poverty unlike them. Sometimes it seems a lot of people think others can apply their way of thinking or seeing the world and it will make their life instantly better. But I don’t think it can happen if they don’t live i…

The cynicism we see is a product more of the boredom of an upbringing in white suburban affluence. Some peoples’ lives in the past half-century were devoid of the struggles of other times and places. Lacking any contrast for anchoring, that homogeneity is interpreted as “everything is terrible” rather than “everything is fine”. Throw in a bit of aimless masculinity or status anxiety, and people start believing a bit of paintball-but-with-real-guns could fill that craving that’s been bothering them.

Others express their total disdain of even the concept of trust by jumping on the cryptocurrency bandwagon, or by believing TOR can do more for them than robust civil rights legislation. It’s all just aspects of the same sentiment, which is why there’s so much overlap.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#272

Post by goodpoint »

maltalex wrote: post #205
iLoveOncall wrote: post #187

I completely disagree that cynicism is about complaining. Cynicism is, as the author says, about never challenging the status quo because you believe it's an already lost battle. Cynicism can be about complaining, but only if you don't do anything about the situation you complain about. I've always been one to complain about a lot of things. When I was studying CS my friends and classmates were annoyed that I was alw…

The term complaining is overloaded. What you describe is actively doing something to make the problem go away. The "no complaint challenge" [0] linked from the article gives a pretty good definition of the type of complaining the author talks about: I defined “complaining” for myself as follows: describing an event or person negatively without indicating next steps to fix the problem. So "the teacher is just showing…

> "describing an event or person negatively without indicating next steps to fix the problem"

That's an absurd restriction.

1) Complaining does not require people to have the expertise to provide a solution. You can complain about a painful tooth and the dentist will handle that.

2) Complaining has social value, especially in democracies. It created social movements that pushed for political change.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#273

Post by the_af »

bambax wrote: post #172
marginalia_nu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leading upper-case Cynic philosophers exhibited a lot of behavior that might be called lower-case cynical today. A criticism that is as old as Diogenes (at least Laertius) is that they were essentially a cult of edgelords. They pretended not to care what people thought, but it was just an act, at the same time it was really important to them that people around them knew how little they cared through all the shockingl…

If Diogenes was doing an act he was really into it. He famously told Alexander the Great to fuck off and stop blocking the light (which leads me to think that the ultimate "fuck you money" is to have no money at all, and not want any). He would also walk around the market and masturbate in public, which the Athenians found disgraceful. When challenged about this he would reply: how happy would we be if we were able t…

> He famously told Alexander the Great to fuck off and stop blocking the light (which leads me to think that the ultimate "fuck you money" is to have no money at all, and not want any).

Many historians think this anecdote is apocryphal, giving credence to the opinion that Diogenes' act was... an act.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#274

Post by janto »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #234
nefitty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case someone reading this thread has never encountered this stance, I sincerely hold the belief that there are objective moral truths that we can discover with our senses and intuition.

What is the ends and purpose of these moral truths?

From a game theory perspective, morality encapsulates behaviour that is viable over multiple interactions across long stretches of time.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#275

Post by the_af »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #247
toyg wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, it's a political agenda camouflaged as philosophical stance.

That's the OP's original point: people who spend their entire lives "fighting corruption" get blinded by their righteousness and zealotry and in effect become corrupt themselves.

How? Becoming corrupt is not the same as getting blinded by zealotry (you can be an honest, true believing, incorruptible zealot). Seems like lazy wordplay to me... or something out of Star Wars, like falling to the Dark Side.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#276

Post by tekromancr »

jacknews wrote: post #256
tekromancr wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the epitome of fixed-mindset. We live in a world on near limitless abundance. We already live in a potential post-scarcity world. The only reason there are poor among us IS the greedy rich; but the greedy rich isn't some faceless, abstract, unkillable cosmic god. They have names and addresses; what they have can be taken from them as has happened many many times throughout history. Things can change, sometime…

Yes, the rich can be stripped. But they'll be replaced by another elite. I think human nature will tend towards some kind of hierarchy. The opportunity is to make the currency of that hierarchy something far above basic needs, IMHO. Perhaps this could be a genuine use-case for cryptocurrencies, so that the ultra wealthy can 'keep score' in maths, rather than mega-yachts, private jets, dark satanic mills, etc.

> I think human nature will tend towards some kind of hierarchy

Only if you ignore every society that that ever existed without a strict economic hierarchy, sure.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#277

Post by Layke1123 »

jd115 wrote: post #168

LOLz well done, selling happy faces to the most cynical crowd on the internet :D Look at these comments! My oh-my. Seriously though, good piece - if a bit shallow. It's a good start. People need to hear this. Cynicism is the only evil in the world. The opposite, of course, is innocence - and, since this can't exist in pure form, the closest second is gullibility. Not ONE person here will agree that gullibility is a g…

The ones who fight corruption are the ones who make a difference in the world.

THAT is cynical.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#278

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

jd115 wrote: post #168

LOLz well done, selling happy faces to the most cynical crowd on the internet :D Look at these comments! My oh-my. Seriously though, good piece - if a bit shallow. It's a good start. People need to hear this. Cynicism is the only evil in the world. The opposite, of course, is innocence - and, since this can't exist in pure form, the closest second is gullibility. Not ONE person here will agree that gullibility is a g…

> the ones who fight x are the most x

Are we sure about this one? Do we have evidence that safe spaces in college universities are worse than South Africa’s apartheid regime or the systemic genocide of natives in Canada/America? Do we have evidence that the southern poverty law center is performing hate crimes worse than the kkk?

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#279

Post by orasis »

DarylZero wrote: post #263
netcan wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, yes... Diogenes (the character) was a famous, upper class dude. Lifelong poverty wasn't a trap he couldn't escape. Also I didn't mean to be too harsh. The " can't wait to tell you how little I care " trope is one we can't escape even in modern dissident youth culture. Hippies, punk, goth, emo... every generation reinvents it and it's artistically/culturally rich ground. That said, the Diogenes character definit…

Why would Marilyn Manson care what normies think? This "care what you think" phrasing I think is really deceptive. Because the active issue is whether you conform to group norms or refuse to do so. If someone refuses to conform to a group, then demonstrably they don't care enough about the benefits of group inclusion to comply with the group demands. If someone quits their job, they may in _some_ sense "care what the…

To fight against something is to be controlled by the thing you’re fighting against. “Freedom from” is not the same as “freedom to”.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#280

Post by marginalia_nu »

janto wrote: post #274
marginalia_nu wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the ends and purpose of these moral truths?

From a game theory perspective, morality encapsulates behaviour that is viable over multiple interactions across long stretches of time.

Right, the question is then, why should we want behaviour that is viable over multiple interactions across long stretches of time?
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