“Working from home during the last year has demonstrated that I have fewer sick days, all issues were resolved by email/phone, and my productivity is up. So I think it makes sense for me to continue working from home. Please let me know if there are any issues/problem with this so that we can discuss and find a solution.”
Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
271–280 of 290 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#272Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
Well actually, what you did was negotiate, but with the leverage of a good BATNA. Having a good BATNA is what makes negotiation much easier and much more likely to be to your advantage. In things like a job negotiation, it's also evidence of objective market conditions - i.e. it's not just you being unreasonable.
Chris Voss method is much better than BATNA
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, the counter-offer to stay is not always that great either: 1. The underlying problem was still there — the management did not value your work to have a thoughtful policy that worked for both you and your employer. Rather than working with you, they chose an adversarial approach. 2. If you had gone back, they now know you can leave, so they will be looking to replace you as soon as they can, possibly even have y…
> 4. It is easier to get hired while you still have a job than while you do not. I'm curious about the reasoning behind this opinion. As someone outside of the US (UK), I've interviewed a few people who were unemployed at the time but with a good level of experience and track record. People deciding to take some time off to do their own thing has never bothered me, if they can afford it then I think everyone deserves…
I think one of the reason is that you have the leverage when negotiating the salary that you expect because you can always walk away and continue with your current job.
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well actually, what you did was negotiate, but with the leverage of a good BATNA. Having a good BATNA is what makes negotiation much easier and much more likely to be to your advantage. In things like a job negotiation, it's also evidence of objective market conditions - i.e. it's not just you being unreasonable.
Chris Voss method is much better than BATNA
Salary and job condition negotiations aren't like hostage negotiations. The actors are rational (often, the process forces this by intermediation, so you don't have a human back-and-forth conversation) and ground truth is objective (market conditions).
More importantly, BATNA gives you confidence in your asks. Many people simply don't negotiate at all. Trying to negotiate salary and conditions in the absence of a BATNA requires a level of social skill and confidence that many people simply don't have.
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#275I would like to know as well. Depending on the size of the company it may be easier to get special treatment. We’ve heard from top-down that we need to be back in the office and there’s been no special treatment given other than some allusions to a hybrid workweek compromise. The only way I think it would be possible at a large company would be to engage in some sort of wfh soft-strike collectively. With enough emplo…
Thanks for making JP Morgan's stance on WFH. I am thinking of switching jobs and this is helpful information.
Do bear in mind that JPM is enormous - 250k people isn't a size you associate with a company, it's a small country! - and although the rhetoric from the top is that everyone should be in the office because teamwork synergy efficiency managementspeak, individual departments may have more flexibility than this; although certainly fully remote is a very very unlikely option to say the least, arrangements where one works from home some of the time on a regular basis were possible even before covid.
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#276Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
Don't negotiate. Dictate. If you're already in place and have proven that you're good at what you do, this is the way to go. "I wanted to let you know that I'll be staying remote from here on out. This last year has been a huge improvement in quality of life for me, and honestly I couldn't imagine working out of an office again. I'd love to stay with you guys (this is a great team), so let me know if that's an option…
> Good developers are hard to find, and the market right now is on fire, so you're a lot more valuable to them then they are to you.
Really? I thought the market was saturated. I've read many horror stories of people sending hundreds of applications out that lead to a few interviews that lead to zero offers.
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Good developers are hard to find, and the market right now is on fire, so you're a lot more valuable to them then they are to you. As much as I think this is true, somehow experience tells me the other way around: valuable employees leaving company X doesn't make company X sweat. Company X just hires more... and there is always someone who can be hired. A couple of months later, everything is alright again and once…
So employers don’t value long tenured devs? Isn’t there opportunity cost in those months
> So employers don’t value long tenured devs?
They don't, especially those who know they can find someone who's eager to jump in and work for less pay.
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#278Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
> Don't negotiate. Dictate.
This comes a privileged position. There many, many developers who don't have that kind of sway with employers. The most likely option is, if you threaten to leave, employers will just say, "OK. Go ahead." And easily find a replacement.
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#2791. the developer market is super hot right now, there are lots of jobs. 2. you seem a capable developer (i checked your personal website). i would approach the relevant contact at the company and ask if you are needed at the office 100% or if there is room for another arrangement, perhaps coming in for key meetings or a few times a month. if not, i would highly recommend looking for a job that supports you working as…
> the developer market is super hot right now, there are lots of jobs.
Really? Doing that? Webshit?
Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
#280I think people try this negotiate but not entitled to remote work.
When you applied for the job , did it say "REMOTE"? If no, then there is no entitlement to anything. You have to agree what company says.
If you not happy then you can find a new job that says "REMOTE".