Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#271

Post by dfrage » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

stephenr wrote: post #270

rhacker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact kind of comment that would make it to the top because it just empowered everyone that DOESN'T have one such system. It's filled with finger pointing. Most of the replies basically point out yeah, I hate IoT lights, but this use case is good... It's not genuine to dismiss the entire enchilada because YOU don't have it. In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with ex…

A light switch is not fundamentally broken, it doesn't need any improvement, besides maybe including a little LED in the switch itself so it's easier to find when the room is dark. But no internet connection is required. 10 years won't change that. And a lock, that depends in some way on internet access? You can FUCK RIGHT OFF.

That find in the dark feature was available in the 1970s, substituting a neon bulb for a LED.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#272

Post by stephenr » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #217

smbullet wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of us live in safe neighborhoods like yourself.

It's not even a matter of "safe". I live in a neighborhood that is seen as very safe. Yet, we had a burglary two houses down not too long ago. And they happen frequently enough to myself. I've had plenty stolen. Without a camera, there's ~0% chance of anyone being caught. I ended up buying a camera for peace of mind and for checking in on my place to see who's entering my residence area. Sometimes it's genuinely help…

> Without a camera, there's ~0% chance of anyone being caught.

If you're only interested in recording what happened (as evidence) an IP camera can run on PoE to a laptop or mini-pc on a UPS, and record for as long as you want, even in the case of a power outage if you include a UPS (an old laptop works well in this case - you can potentially just run the PoE switch/injector on the UPS and let the laptop run on its battery).

No internet connection required. No "service" to stop working. No "API" to become deprecated.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#273

Post by Smrchy » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

Good thing i never bought a Nest device. As with most "Google made" devices the lifespan and their commitment to support a product are abysmal.

Honestly we need to change the way we think about products - especially household products like those Nest was selling. No way can i save money with it if i pay 300$ and it gets killed after 2 or 3 years. And i'm not even talking about the environmental aspects.

The documentary about Dieter Rams makes me long for more designers who understand their responsibility.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/ramsfilm

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#274

Post by stephenr » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

dfrage wrote: post #271

stephenr wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A light switch is not fundamentally broken, it doesn't need any improvement, besides maybe including a little LED in the switch itself so it's easier to find when the room is dark. But no internet connection is required. 10 years won't change that. And a lock, that depends in some way on internet access? You can FUCK RIGHT OFF.

That find in the dark feature was available in the 1970s, substituting a neon bulb for a LED.

Our dimmer switches (which are all slowly blowing out - maybe too much current? I don't know, I didn't install them) include this, but I've never seen it on other switches.

Weirdly some wall outlets have a little clear plastic section that looks like it should have a light behind it... but nothing. Asked a local 'builder' (I won't say electrician, because that doesn't exist here) and he had no idea what it's for either.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#275

Post by mixmastamyk » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

weberc2 wrote: post #251

mixmastamyk wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know not getting up sounds like a good thing, but the logical conclusion to that are the couch potatoes shown in the movie Wall-E.

If your only exercise is walking to the light switch you have bigger problems.

It's cumulative.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#276

Post by ajmurmann » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

dustinmoris wrote: post #97

Smart people don't buy smart home devices. My relatively poor grandparents and my slightly less poor parents had a hard working life, but none of them had to sleep in a dark cold room because the switch to turn the lights on or the heating stopped working. Ever. This problem has been solved by other people many many years ago. Last month I watched a documentary where a billionaire was showing of his multi million man…

"It's just not a problem which I think people have, but somehow the consumer industry has convinced so many fools to buy cheaply fabricated, badly secured, even worse programmed and often not long supported smart home devices which add absolutely no benefit to anyone's everyday life and cause lots of problems."

I'm not a big fan of smart devices, but I've had several issues that were solved very conveniently by smart devises.

The temperature in my second floor bedroom and my first floor living room is usually totally different. The thermostat is in the living room. So all too often we'd be laying in bed and the temperature is wrong. So now you have to walk down stairs, adjust it and hope you got it right. We never bothered doing anything like turning on the vegetation function for 30 minutes. Nest thermostat was a total game changer. Sometimes it does annoying stuff and isn't nearly as smart as I'd like it to be, but it's so much better than the old thermostat.

Similarly I have ceiling fans with light bulbs. You can turn the whole thing on and off with wall switches, but only control lights and fan with a strong that hangs from the fan. Unfortunately the builder or previous owner put these in a room with cathedral ceilings. So I'd need a ladder to control these properly. I put smart lightbulbs in and now at least those can be controlled independently.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#277

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #151

zelly wrote: post #46

We are all used to SaaS randomly getting obsoleted, but when you buy a physical device you kind of expect to own it forever. But no, cloud and IoT means even your physical stuff are SaaS products. Just stop buying the trash.

All my smart home devices (excluding Alexa, one day I'll get around to setting up snips.ai, but for now at least it's only an extra interface and nothing I depend on) will keep working without internet – without a problem. The problem is with the always-on things. It's the same with computer games. But as long as people keep buying singleplayer games that require an internet connection and smart home devices that sto…

> But as long as people keep buying singleplayer games that require an internet connection and smart home devices that stop working without one, companies will keep producing them.

Wish it was that simple.

With IoT, companies practicing dishonest and abusive business practices, like tying appliances to their SaaS and turning them from products into services, can get VC investment and simply outmarket the honest companies. Meanwhile, society develops antibodies slowly, so regular people are mostly unable to tell they're being taken advantage of (though cases like this help build this awareness). Consumers don't "vote with their wallets" for perfect solutions, they choose from what's on the market - and the market is saturated with bad actors right now.

As for games, it ain't easy either. Games are not commodities. The choice isn't between buying single player games requiring Internet connection and single player games not requiring it. The choice is between buying such Internet-tied games and not buying the next installment of your favorite franchise at all; between accepting abusive levels of DRM and the fact you're only renting, or not participating in the gaming culture.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#278

Post by rconti » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #217

smbullet wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of us live in safe neighborhoods like yourself.

It's not even a matter of "safe". I live in a neighborhood that is seen as very safe. Yet, we had a burglary two houses down not too long ago. And they happen frequently enough to myself. I've had plenty stolen. Without a camera, there's ~0% chance of anyone being caught. I ended up buying a camera for peace of mind and for checking in on my place to see who's entering my residence area. Sometimes it's genuinely help…

With a camera, there's a ~0% chance of anyone getting caught.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#279

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #245

stickfigure wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have spent a non-negligible amount of my life looking for remotes. But the really big waste is the amount of time fiddling with 5 remotes trying to figure out how to get the f-ing AV system working. I have a magnificent non-smart home theatre on my property, set up by one of the other co-owners. He's pretty much the only person that knows how to use it; the last time I tried, I had to call him. This stuff is a disa…

Combine the AV system with the variety of places on might have audio or video, and it is even more confusing. I'd like to see a web site or an app that lets you input what you've got and how it is connected, and then answers questions about that setup for you. For example, I'd be able to tell it that I have: Denon AVR-1913 receiver Comcast X1 cable box Sony BDP-S390 Blu-Ray player Nintendo Switch Samsung 55U7000 TV I…

Have you looked into a Harmony remote?

Not the world's best UI for configuring, but when done, it works, and you define "Activities", like you described.

And at the start it does exactly that: "What devices do you have?" "When you watch TV do you control volume through TV/STB/AV receiver?" "What inputs on what devices are used?"

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#280

Post by dingaling » Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #203

dustinmoris wrote: post #97

Smart people don't buy smart home devices. My relatively poor grandparents and my slightly less poor parents had a hard working life, but none of them had to sleep in a dark cold room because the switch to turn the lights on or the heating stopped working. Ever. This problem has been solved by other people many many years ago. Last month I watched a documentary where a billionaire was showing of his multi million man…

This is pure FUD. I'm disappointed that it's got so many responses on HN instead of being down-voted in exchange for a better anti-IoT argument at the top instead. But hey, sure, let's go through this: - I don't care about some dude you saw on TV. A single anecdote means nothing. Even less when it's someone not representative of the population. - A strawman convenience is another terrible argument. Sometimes it matte…

> Switches and light bulbs are low investment, low risk purchases.

Outfitting my house with smart bulbs would cost about £400. I've better uses for that amount of money.