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Revolution in Kiev

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261–270 of 377 posts

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#261
http://www.neweasterneurope.eu/articles-and-commentary/1061-...

> When darkness falls on Kyiv, unidentified groups of “people in civilian clothes” roam the city, hunting for the young people, especially those who wear the symbols of the Maidan or the European Union. They kidnap them and take them out into forests, where they are stripped and tortured in fiercely cold weather. For some strange reason the victims of such actions are overwhelmingly young artists: actors, painters, poets. One feels that some strange “death squadrons” have been released in the country with an assignment to wipe out all that is best in it.

And while the upvotes for the story climb, the story itself drops slowly but surely off the front page, because a killswitch has been toggled, because "HN is not for politics", not even a revolution with unprecedented live coverage on the internet. i.e. a new development.

When some guy in the tech scene -- not an engineer or hacker or anything, a marketing guy for a tech firm -- dies, the story being completely unrelated to technology, that's okay, the discussion may take it's course, going off a billion tangents because otherwise there would be nothing to talk about. He's "one of us", after all. Are those young people not also of us? Is one single frontpage slot, out of thirty, too much to ask, for people to discuss and share information?

Shameful.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#262

The photography here is absolutely incredible. This situation is really frightening to me. I so hope that the Ukraine can get out from underneath her oppressors (yes I mean Yanukovitch and Putin) without descending any further into chaos.

Ukraine isn't under oppression from Yanukovitch and Russia. Current president of Ukraine won last elections being in opposition, after revolution of 2004 showed that nothing changed. But as last government could do any good, current is also considered bad (by people). The core problem is Ukraine consists of two parts - East and West. Both parts are about the same size and population. West part gravitates to west and…

You know, that kind of stuff does not happen at all when people are not under oppression.

No population want to go over the police and fight. No big group of people want to kill their neighbours just beause they are in uniforms, neither want to die fighting them. Whatever place and culture they have.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#263
post #47

Reading stuff like this is a wonderful way to remind me how naive and easy to manipulate people generally are.

I can't upvote this enough. People do indeed believe in revolutions, and thinks by burning stuff that wealth will be made. 3 years later (Tunisian here), we found out that it's not a revolution. The dictator might have been ousted by external agencies. While the protests are legit, the outcome is not. This made me a new opinion: You can have power over another entity by using damage (burning, and crashing stuff). But…

Well, it's not that revolutions work - they don't. But the threat of a revolution is the only trick that works, and you need powerfull people to belive that it's a real threat.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#264
post #37

I wonder if somebody actually read EU treaty (reason for all this protests). Signing it would pretty much kill industry and criple agriculture at Ukraine.

Oh, great. Those treaties that "kill" industry and agriculture are normaly the best things that can happen for the economy of a country. Just beware the ones that "protect" them.

For all groups on the net, this one should understand quite well the meaning of "creative destruction", and "stale business".

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#265
post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

If you want a balanced view turn to Wikipedia, not some kremlin supported (pun intended, see below) propaganda: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan The peaceful Euromaidan protesters were attacked and beaten by police force on November 30. Even after this the protests were peaceful up until January 19, when the president signed laws that severely limit freedom of expression and gathering. Dissatisfied people we…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29

The party that is a significant force behind the protests is definitely ultra-nationalist. You could see it from the statements about Russians and Jews, and from ethno- and language centric political program. If this party wins (and it has up to 40% in western regions of Ukraine), it will mean that Ethnic Russians in the east and other minorities will become second-class citizens.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#266

Two things that especially amaze about the actual 'street part' of Ukrainian revolution are complete absence of plundering or looting of local shops and that no firearms have been used by protesters.

I think mostly because the protest are very localized. Apart from that street, the city( and country ) is operating as usual. Shops and businesses are operating and civilians are going to work. The protest are mostly after work activity. That is why the largest fights take place in the evening and night.

^^ This comment is misinformation.

More than 10 regional administrations are currently under control of protestors and there are mass protests in most regional centers in Ukraine.

This is a map of protests. http://inspired.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/oda-map-26...

Legend: Red means regional administration buildings are under control of protestors. Pinkish are regions where protestors block the administration buildings of were unsuccessful at capturing them. Brownish? means mass protests are occurring.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to assert that Bulgaria, Slovakia would be better in Russian sphere of influence? Do you suggest that benzopirenes are more harmful than a lot of tear gas being used against protesters? Kiev is living its own life, re-read the Zyalt's post if you haven't read this yet. Protesters are stupid? Ok, is it better to stay quiet when you have your president becoming a dictator? When police is more like bandits a…

> Ok, is it better to stay quiet when you have your president becoming a dictator? When police is more like bandits and courts are lawless? When peaceful protests are almost outlawed just because it annoys the dictator and its clique? Reminds me of one country that tends to drone strike everything that they can't spy on.

You should get your news about the U.S. from somewhere other than hn, /r/politics or RT.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#268
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with living in an anarchist collective is that no one does the dishes.

That's a very abstract statement. What kind of dishes are we talking about? Also, I'm not talking collectivism here. As was pointed out by another user, I'm talking about a specific form of anarchy which is anarcho-capitalism or market-anarchism. In my opinion, it is only governments which usually don't give a crap about their citizens. Or at best, they do give a crap, but it's still much much worse than private busi…

The closest I have come to anarchy is off-campus housing. Are there examples of your ideas working in real life?

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I sympathize with the protesters, the disdain you speak of should surprise no one. First, Yanukovich won the last election when his opponents were in power. I think this is a good enough indicator that he has lots of supporters. Second, the Ukrainians went through all of this already in 2004 and apparently nothing particularly good came out of it. The country is in the same place it was 10 years ago and Yanukov…

Just because he won does not mean that he has the license to abuse his people and steal from them. That is a flawed argument. He also should not have been eligible to run in the first place. Apply it to your country, imagine if it's current leader told you that you could not oppose the government in any meaningful way, have him/her profiteer off his/her position, then tell me if you feel apathy. Anecdotes like yours…

I think you misunderstood me. My argument was simply that there are many people who support Yanukovich and unsurprisingly feel disdain towards those trying to overthrow the president they've elected.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#270
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very abstract statement. What kind of dishes are we talking about? Also, I'm not talking collectivism here. As was pointed out by another user, I'm talking about a specific form of anarchy which is anarcho-capitalism or market-anarchism. In my opinion, it is only governments which usually don't give a crap about their citizens. Or at best, they do give a crap, but it's still much much worse than private busi…

The closest I have come to anarchy is off-campus housing. Are there examples of your ideas working in real life?

Think about how many things in our lives we do that governments don't control. We get married, we choose what to learn, what occupation to pick and what to work on, we choose whom to become friends with. All of those things are done in complete anarchy yet those are all very important things and decisions! No one in the western world who's in their right mind would suggest that it's a good idea for government to start controlling those things.

Now how come I can't choose what laws I can live by? I don't see people suggesting we all vote for one specific kind of car we are all going to drive for the next 4 years. Yet when it comes to laws it is considered normal that one group suffers because another, slightly more powerful group, wants them to live by their rules.

If you're talking about examples of societies with no government then there are a couple of those in history (Iceland and Ireland being two of them), but the more important point is that sometimes you don't have examples. If you went back to the 17-th century, would you find any example of a country where slavery was outlawed? Yet these days, it is gone almost completely and remains only in illegal forms.

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