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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#261
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

> So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? This is such a silly strawman. A better example would be that reciprocity would say that if China mistreated our civilians then we should mistreat theirs. Reciprocity doesn't mean "we do whatever China does". > You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with op…

>A better example would be that reciprocity would say that if China mistreated our civilians then we should mistreat theirs.

Good example, and thank god that is unconstitutional.

For example China can arrest American citizens in China without dual process. But we cannot arrest Chinese citizens, or anyone here in the U.S. and just put them to prison without dual process.

Americans in China have no freedom of speech. Should we ban Chinese citizens in the U.S. from speaking freely as well? Again, that is unconstitutional. U.S. constitution protects anyone within the U.S. not just U.S. citizens. Otherwise we can just send someone with a green card to jail without trial.

So your example only serves the counter-argument, which is that reciprocity is not something you should aim for when it comes to human rights.

> which is in turn used to spread CCP propaganda.

Since not even the U.S. government has been able to provide any such evidence, and have admitted that the threat is hypothetical, if you have any such evidence you should present it.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#262
post #158
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American citizens can use the multitude of copy cat apps for their freedom of speech. If it was about freedom of speech the gov would have requested all the apps to censor the topics, not banning one app.

Part of what constitutes freedom of speech is freedom to hear what someone has to state which is constitutionally protected. The fact that there might be other venues where someone can produce speech, does not mean that the right to hear what someone has to say has not been denied.

Yes, it absolutely does mean that, in this case.

Sure, if finding and joining another platform was a difficult thing, that would be a problem. If no other platforms will host your speech, that's a problem. If your audience is significantly reduced in size, then that's a problem.

But none of that will be the case if TikTok is banned.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#263
At root, this topic is about "misinformation". The topic is interesting as misinformation itself may be subject to misinformation! I'm sure most would agree that the topic is politicised at the very least.

One thing that we can look into at is just how effective misinformation really is. Another thing is to examine how we approach the topic. Do we see people around us as "the masses" that are easily brainwashed and influenced but ourselves as rational, free thinkers? What are the impacts of a culture that is growing to believe that its own people can be easily brain washed or that its people should be protected from harmful information.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#264
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) Using TikTok is not a right. b) Removing the platform entirely is not censorship. Especially when everyone will just shift to Instagram, Youtube etc. c) This was a decision made by the US Congress. It is by definition not authoritarian.

> This was a decision made by the US Congress. It is by definition not authoritarian. Clearly the US Congress represents the will of the majority...

[flagged]

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#265
post #125
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

American citizens can use the multitude of copy cat apps for their freedom of speech. If it was about freedom of speech the gov would have requested all the apps to censor the topics, not banning one app.

>multitude of copy cat apps for their freedom of speech.

Except they can't. All of the other apps are under U.S. government control and have engaged in severe censorship on certain topics such as the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Even the politicians who voted for the bill have openly admitted that making Israel looking bad is the reason they are banning TikTok.

This ban effort regained momentum after October 7th, 2023: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this, but there is still a massive net benefit for the youth, and I hope it opens the door to more social media scrutiny. People forget how relaxed life was before everyone could point a camera at someone and upload and embarass them in 10 seconds

Don't expect the world to change. On Jan 20, new office will start tearing up decisions.

I'm not one for the US Politics but i distinctly remember this being a keystone Trump policy last time around.

Why would it change just a couple of years later?

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#267
post #161
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

For anyone that has had even moderate experience with TikTok comment moderation, it becomes clear very quickly there's an incredible bias that seemingly disfavours Western interests. This includes calls towards extreme violence that should be banned per their own content policy. I don't think you need to have access to any secret documents to have a good deal of suspicion this platform is being used by foreign actors…

I don't get why people keep asking for evidence of Chinese government-run influence campaigns on TikTok. It should be obvious that the Chinese government is using TikTok to influence the culture and politics of citizens of other countries. If they are not doing this, then they are wildly foolish and incompetent.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#268
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

a) Using TikTok is not a right. b) Removing the platform entirely is not censorship. Especially when everyone will just shift to Instagram, Youtube etc. c) This was a decision made by the US Congress. It is by definition not authoritarian.

> Removing the platform entirely is not censorship. Especially when everyone will just shift to Instagram, Youtube etc.

It is, because politicians voted for the bill have openly admitted the Israel-Gaza content is what pushed them to vote for the ban. Instagram, YT, etc are under U.S. control and engage in sufficient self-censorship when it comes the Israel-Gaza conflict in order to make Israel look good.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#269
Media & social media is a tool in the Western World to manufacture consent. Ain't no room for alternative narratives or wordings. That's why the ruling class needs to either have full control over (social) media or ban it altogether. So much is clear after one year of genocide in the ME.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#270

This is one of the things in my lifetime that gives me the most optimism, alongisde the IRA Bill. as someone in Australia who strongly supports our recent U16 ban, I hope META gets removed/broken up for you guys soon after, at least for underage users. I'm 22 and often wish I had never been born into a world with social media, with the belief that it is one of the worst things we have ever made as a species. I know t…

U16 ban? I'd argue that the highest risk in terms of Meta/IG comes from people aged 50 and up. Boomers who can't recognize fake news for shit taking everything at face value.

The kids will be fine, their bullshit radars are evolving. Old people's don't.

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