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A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

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Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#261
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taste is usually the Rinsing Aid, aka Drying Agent, not the detergent. It's an additional chemical is sprayed on the dishes towards the end of the cycle, to aid drying without creating spots. The chemical remains on the dishes.

I'm quite surprised the majority of people are fine with drinking that stuff. Not just because it noticeably changes the taste of beverages but because it's covered in chemicals and people are fine with it mixing together with their beverage. Our rinse aid is disabled on our dishwasher.

It doesn't noticeably change the taste of beverages to me. As to the chemical argument, that doesn't matter to me. I'm willing to trust that people have done the homework and that it's safe to drink.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#262
post #201

This as good a place as any to mention one of my favorite authors, Dishwasher Pete[0], who wrote a zine about dishwashing and dishwashers[1], and a memoir about his quest to wash dishes in all 50 states[2]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_Pete 1: https://archive.org/details/dishwasher7 2: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/827458.Dishwasher

The True Story Of The Fake Dishwasher Pete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DqWRyote2Q

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#263
post #66

I was a dishy for years in a few different restaurants and hotels. It's hard work but if you do your best to help out the kitchen and wait staff wherever you can (picking up ingredients, helping mise en place, fetching dish carts yourself, stocking bar) then you can really make a difference in the day to day. Sometimes I miss the camaraderie. It's an easy industry to get stuck in though, and there's usually a lot of…

I got stuck a long time in restaurants from around 18 years old to right at 30. Finally got out and move to the construction industry. I'm just wondering what exactly Aguilar did in construction that's definitely harder than some high volume fast paced kitchens. Only thing I can come up with is most likely roofing, especially during the summer, because everything else I've been through in construction is easier. "I a…

man that is a super informative comment. I worked a shitty fast food job back in the day and I always felt like that was the hardest job I ever did. Literally just non stop work.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Improving the work of 100 people by 1% is worth a hell of a lot more than a clean dish, no matter how society is organized. Not if the benefits of this marginal productivity increase are hoarded by a small subset of society: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoupling_of_wages_from_produ... You don't need to listen to communists to figure this out—you can just read Schumpeter.

I agree there's an issue with wages vs productivity. However: - The decoupling is not equal for all the countries examined. For the US, wages as a fraction of GDP has been roughly steady, declining from 49% in 1942 to 43% today [0] - We're going through major demographic changes - we have two huge cohorts in the boomers and the millennials entering different life stages in huge numbers. We're also living much longer.…

> Wealth is not static and cannot be reliably hoarded.

I very strongly disagree with this—the more wealth you have, the more you can afford to manipulate society (both public and private spheres) to create favorable conditions for retaining or increasing your wealth. This is just the concept of Buffet's "moat" broadened to apply to the rest of society rather than a market segment.

> Real-life rich people invest their capital in (hopefully) productive enterprises. If they do a bad job, their wealth gets reassigned to savvier investors.

"Productive" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. What actually might provide value to society and what might generate returns are wildly different things and are often diametrically opposed. Actual democratic control over the economy would yield a very different society than the one we live in, and it's very difficult to see how a capital-driven society doesn't create poverty and the long laundry list of associated evils (homelessness, illiteracy, substance abuse, widespread mental health issues, malnutrition, violence, etc etc).

Not to mention—more relevantly to our discussion here—technology's potential is woefully, woefully, woefully hamstrung by our insistence on using it to extract wealth from each other. Imagine what a smartphone could be capable of if it wasn't viewed as a profit center well outside the control of its users. Imagine what kind of internet we could have if people weren't obligated to sell ads to keep it running. Etc. This devotion to the "free market" (as if such a thing could actually exist outside of a textbook) has destroyed liberals' ability to imagine humanity's actual potential, and the demand for continual returns creeps into all our lives in the form of lower quality products, constant ads, drowning in plastic waste and roasting all summer. If the market is going to course-correct towards rational use of resources I have no clue what this would even look like.

> A common example of people trying to hoard wealth is homeowners who interfere with the free market by blocking new construction. This is going to work out great for them... until it doesn't.

The best way to make this argument will be to show when this fails (as it does, occasionally, do). Currently it's really only failing where global warming is literally washing real estate out to sea. Judging by who owns the real estate in this country—mostly, the richest generation to ever have existed and very possibly to ever exist—being a NIMBY is evidently a great way to grow your wealth. Crassus was known for making money by withholding his firemen from burning buildings until they handed the deed over. Joe Manchin's daughter makes money by exploiting an insulin monopoly at insane profit margins while people regularly have to choose between food, insulin, and rent. Etc. Markets are only able to correct these dynamics over the long term, much longer term than a human life. Hell, some of Europe's aristocracy are still clinging on to money and power that their family acquired a millennium ago for reasons completely lost to memory, and the "failures" famous in European history occur over centuries (e.g. see the Fugger family). The easiest way to make wealth is to already be wealthy.

> As another example of capital reallocation, if you're earning good money by working for an pre-revenue startup, you're enjoying the process of capital getting reassigned to you.

Of course! Trying to pass down what money I can is certainly why I took the job over, say, being a dishwasher. However, this is not an opportunity for most folks, and by any definition of making this an opportunity for everyone (not just a subset of society) is directly contradictory to the fundamentals of investment, which relies solely on using wealth inequality to drive productivity increases.

Look, all I'm saying is that investment is really useful for driving economic improvements... until it's not, at which point whatever service the invested-in thing provides should be nationalized and run at zero margin to avoid inevitable enshittification. I strongly, strongly recommend reading Schumpeter. For being the father of our industry I'm flabbergasted with how few people actually read him. It's easy to look at the 20th century and confuse the economic boom that came with industrialization and exploitation of virgin frontiers with the natural course of market forces, but the latter is coming to a close. Buckle up!

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#265
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most landlords don't accept partial rent if your salary isn't earning you enough.

I'm not sure what your point is - most people will go extreme distances to avoid becoming homeless: - commuting from a lower cost area >60m away - using food banks or not paying less critical bills (like utilities you usually have a few months before they start shutting things off) - begging or selling themselves on the internet - negotiating with their landlord who is often happy to have less money than an onerous e…

Not to mention crime like theft, fraud, burglaries. But yes, a perpetual underclass has giant negative externalities. The status quo is deeply ingrained to the American psyche - the risk of someone taking advantage of handouts trumps all other concerns.

Not having public bathrooms, but clean up shit from the streets. Not having preventative health care, but still providing legally mandated ambulance rides and critical care. Letting poor people who get an unexpected expense (say medical or car breaks down) fall into unemployment, homelessness and crime or – costliest of all – the prison industrial complex.

Paying the bill isn’t the problem. People are happy to overspend public funds, so this isn’t related to small government or just general tax aversion. The problem is simply that someone might get something they didn’t deserve. So in a perverted way, it’s a kind of a moralistic obsession with fairness.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#266
post #66

I was a dishy for years in a few different restaurants and hotels. It's hard work but if you do your best to help out the kitchen and wait staff wherever you can (picking up ingredients, helping mise en place, fetching dish carts yourself, stocking bar) then you can really make a difference in the day to day. Sometimes I miss the camaraderie. It's an easy industry to get stuck in though, and there's usually a lot of…

I washed dishes in a downtown tower with four restaurants, all sharing one kitchen. The output of the dishwasher took four people, mostly because delivering the dishes across the huge kitchen distances was time consuming. I had a lot of generalized anxiety, and so I liked complex physical challenges. I eventually replaced all four dishwashers. Took a lot of intense speed and strategic dish delivery. I came very close to the dishes coming out going back into the loading area again, and that's where I needed the greatest speed. Over the years I've found other people also dealt with their anxiety by seeking out intense sports or sports-like physical activities that facilitated seeking higher and higher levels of mastery.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#267
post #201

This as good a place as any to mention one of my favorite authors, Dishwasher Pete[0], who wrote a zine about dishwashing and dishwashers[1], and a memoir about his quest to wash dishes in all 50 states[2]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_Pete 1: https://archive.org/details/dishwasher7 2: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/827458.Dishwasher

I have fond memories of checking out the local comic store in Berkeley, CA in the 90's, after lunch once a week, to see if the new Dishwasher was in. If it was, I knew I'd have a great time that evening reading his exploits and learning a lot of history. He'd often include a history lesson about local labor relations over the last century. Not always, but sometimes.

I have all of them in a box somewhere. I, of course, also have his book on my shelf.

IMO, Dishwasher Pete is a national treasure.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#268
post #231

I had a summer job as a dishwasher, which paid minimum wage. I was required to join the union, so after union dues, I was paid less than the minimum wage! Being a union member provided no benefits whatsoever for temporary employees such as myself. This reminds me, the artist Gregory Blackstock retired with a union pension at 55 after 25 years' service as a dishwasher[0]. His art provided another source of income, but…

You joined a union workforce as a temporary employee and were shocked to find that you didn't benefit? Who do you think the union is there to benefit? It is there to protect the people working there for their living wage, and one of the biggest threats to that is replacing them with younger workers more willing to be exploited. A good union is acting in their interests, not yours, so it sounds like it was working as…

I think you misunderstood the parent: they were paying into the union.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#269
post #262
post #201

This as good a place as any to mention one of my favorite authors, Dishwasher Pete[0], who wrote a zine about dishwashing and dishwashers[1], and a memoir about his quest to wash dishes in all 50 states[2]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_Pete 1: https://archive.org/details/dishwasher7 2: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/827458.Dishwasher

The True Story Of The Fake Dishwasher Pete https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DqWRyote2Q

That was such a wild story. Such a delight, on so many levels. Thanks for sharing this.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#270
I only worked a single restaurant for about 7 weeks. I'd leave with my ears ringing, everything outside sounded muffled at the end of the night.

I understand the appeal some people see in the work (it is honest work after all), but I literally could not hear what people said in there. I just nodded and assumed it wasn't profane!

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