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Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah thanks for your transparency but how do you go about fixing these problems? Like it's great to acknowledge them but the "Why NodeJS is dead" article was in the suggested sidebar for me yesterday

It's been frustratingly slow because our recs system is sprawling. Your main feed is populated differently than the read-more section you are referencing. Plus author behavior lags incentives. We actually had a clickbait about MILFs on a programming story the other day so it's worse than you are reporting. Where we are today is 30% rolled out but not even announced to our authors. That'll happen in a week and is when…

>MILFs on a programming story

Go on…

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#262

I'm Medium's current CEO as of last July. I actually pay a lot of attention to this sentiment on Hacker News. For example, I've bookmarked and often share this recent HN poll where 88% of people here think there's a negative stigma to a medium article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223222 It's sad and entirely our fault. We didn't fail but we did lose our way. Here's how I see it: 1. Lost our way on recommen…

I’m a writer who used to write on medium, started writing on substack last October. To be honest, I like the business model of medium better. I get paid when people read my stuff. Plus having distribution built in, that’s great. But last year I started posting really thoughtful content that I put a lot of work into, and I would get like dozen views. I had 300 followers and several previously successful articles and I was getting nothing. I get more views on Substack with no distribution at all! So it is just straight up not worth it, in any way, for me to publish on medium. I really feel like it was a bad move to remove the discrete human curation. I really feel like you need a big wheat-chaff separator, so that readers aren’t getting shown clickbait garbage, and writers get distributed if and only if they are actually producing relatively thoughtful, relatively unique content.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#263

I'm Medium's current CEO as of last July. I actually pay a lot of attention to this sentiment on Hacker News. For example, I've bookmarked and often share this recent HN poll where 88% of people here think there's a negative stigma to a medium article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223222 It's sad and entirely our fault. We didn't fail but we did lose our way. Here's how I see it: 1. Lost our way on recommen…

These aren’t the key problem. The key problem is that you’ve lost the trust of the authors you want to attract. It’s no longer a place I can post and know that my content will be cleanly accessible to readers. I now think you’ll pepper it with pop ups and account demands. It went from being a minimalist and trusted place to post, to now a feeling of feeding my own content into someone else’s machine and losing contro…

For me, it’s more like: if I write on medium, I know my stuff is being put right next to utter shit. I take writing seriously, and it honestly looks bad to be in the platform, because almost everything you see on there is so bad.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#264
“Is there any way for a platform like Medium to keep up with high quality posts while also paying their writers well?”

To me, this is the essential question. I’ve been writing on medium since May of 2019 and for a while there was a real sense of community and camaraderie. I met some of my closest writing friends and mentors there. But there was a growing sense of gaming the system in the writing communities that made me increasingly uncomfortable. Share threads where writers were supposed to read (and clap for and comment on ) everyone else’s pieces if they expected to be able to share theirs. But what it ended up amounting to was mostly a circle jerk of writers reading other writers’ stuff, quality be damned.

The curation engine was good for awhile and drove worthwhile engagement and earnings, but then it fell apart, too. I make less than $10/month from my two accounts now, enough to offset the cost of my 2 memberships.

Back to the original question, I don’t know how a media company could pay editors to spend the eyes-on time it takes to judge quality and also pay writers a reasonable amount without becoming a traditional media company that hires freelance writers to hodgepodge it up. All those standalone stories with no organization makes my head spin. And consumers (who are able) are increasingly unwilling to pay for a subscription to such a company, especially to a media business with a lack of focus that has not proven its value.

I always thought Medium was written for readers and exploited the hell out if its writers, but then their business model started being about neither readers nor writers.

I truly do believe Substack’s model is superior in that readers pay to support authors or creators they find worthwhile rather than paying the platform ant large and trying to wade through the morass of indefensibly low quality work (or, more likely, forgetting you subscribed in the first place until the renewal email comes). It’s a different kind of platform, but more versatile and feels more homey.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#265

I'm Medium's current CEO as of last July. I actually pay a lot of attention to this sentiment on Hacker News. For example, I've bookmarked and often share this recent HN poll where 88% of people here think there's a negative stigma to a medium article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223222 It's sad and entirely our fault. We didn't fail but we did lose our way. Here's how I see it: 1. Lost our way on recommen…

As a random HN visitor that clicks links to Medium from here, it’s been a while since visiting Medium has become the following experience for me. First I click a couple of, let’s say, “why X is dead” links, then I start getting the message “You have Y free articles left this month”. Then I’m thinking, okay, the “X ded” articles were meh anyway, why would I even subscribe then? Somewhere in this scenario the incentive…

Yes, that's precisely my sentiment as well.

As far as fixing it, the obvious first step is to at least be more generous with the article count... and don't show it at all until someone has seen at least 5 articles on separate days that month. Count a session clicking through a few articles on the same day as at most 2 article views (maybe have a separate limit of something like 5 articles in the same day). Don't be a nag trying to upsell when people haven't even had a chance to get interested yet.

That at least would cut down on the sleazy feeling of the whole site. An easy next step would be hiring someone as an editorial curator. Most of their job to start would be to build a regex list of article title structures which are overly cliched, so that those articles get de-merited by the recommender algorithm

Another way to feed a meaningful recommender: Allow users to tag posts (and other more clever things like deriving tags by looking at, e.g., which sub-reddits link to them). Build user profiles that are similar to how StumbleUpon had a "Stumble DNA" for users.

That's what I would be doing, anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#266

I'm Medium's current CEO as of last July. I actually pay a lot of attention to this sentiment on Hacker News. For example, I've bookmarked and often share this recent HN poll where 88% of people here think there's a negative stigma to a medium article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223222 It's sad and entirely our fault. We didn't fail but we did lose our way. Here's how I see it: 1. Lost our way on recommen…

I think these are not the main pain points. The biggest issue for me is that medium makes me feel like a cash cow. The way it wants me to pay every step of the way, the way it hijacks copy/paste to insert its own marketing. The account it wants me to create. The trackers it inserts everywhere. You missed the step of making something great that people actually feel good about paying for. The grassroots "for users by u…

Exactly my reasons as well. I just kept running into walls on medium. I recall commenting on articles that I did end up reading wasn't smooth either.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#267

their payment model is really strange (I looked into this a while ago, may have changed) I think you get paid in some inscrutable formula of '% of subscription revenue when someone reads your post and then subscribes' like based on some cursed attribution model it also has a CMS technology that loads a visible page, then does a bunch of FOUC nonsense, probably messes with my scroll in some way -- heavy + awful presen…

They pay for member reading time. In other words, when a paying member reads your piece, a part of their $5 goes to you based on the number of minutes they read. Outside views give nothing. So even if your article goes viral on HN or somewhere else, if the readers aren’t subscribers you make nothing. (It ends up being something like 1-3¢/min)

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#268
post #141

I'm Medium's current CEO as of last July. I actually pay a lot of attention to this sentiment on Hacker News. For example, I've bookmarked and often share this recent HN poll where 88% of people here think there's a negative stigma to a medium article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223222 It's sad and entirely our fault. We didn't fail but we did lose our way. Here's how I see it: 1. Lost our way on recommen…

Well that’s probably the response that’s most swayed my opinion of a service ever. Good luck with it, I really hope you can turn it around.

Agreed, I think this deserves recognition. This is not the fake self promotion disguised as “brutal honesty” you see in the corporate word, there are actual admissions here that go beyond that, which leads even a cynic like me to take this seriously.

It’s also important to understand that a lot of people will never pay for or be happy with the paywall content model, especially for articles. So even a success in this domain would be hated by a lot of people.

Those of us who personally wouldn’t pay for articles aren’t the target audience anyway, and that’s ok. I think throwing rocks at paywalls is a stupid thing to do, especially when the only alternative is ad-tech. I’d rather have competing business models than not.

What doesn’t make sense to me, is that opaque clickbait recommendation engines AND paywall made itself to the same platform. This seems odd, because usually the former is a plague of ad-tech. Perhaps this is the result of cargo-culting from employees who came from ad-tech mindlessly replicating these patterns even where they don’t make sense.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those things was Facebook or Twitter's business, because none was how they make money. Facebook and Twitter are for-proffit businesses, and for almost all of their history the money has come from selling advertising and surveillance (its pretty clear that birdsite guy never understood that twitter users are his products and advertisers are his customers). There are not many alternatives if you want to provide…

What you’re saying is true in terms of where the money comes from, but it doesn’t explain why customers are being screwed. The thing is, all of these companies make money by arbitraging value consumed by the end users versus value produced by advertisers. It’s a two sided market, except that consumers pay in attention rather than currency. It’s catchy - and probably true - to say that if you aren’t paying, “then you…

Which customers are getting screwed? Posters or viewers on 'free' hosting sites are the products not the customers. Online ad buyers everywhere get cheated, but that is another story.

Many of these giant sites are really in the business of talking money out of investors, so their main business is not really selling a service at all (its "investor storytime").

I don't think that arbitrage model is useful because one side is paying cash and the other is not. Its like calling dating a marketplace, a bad metaphor.

Re: Ask HN: Why did medium.com "fail"?

#270

I'm Medium's current CEO as of last July. I actually pay a lot of attention to this sentiment on Hacker News. For example, I've bookmarked and often share this recent HN poll where 88% of people here think there's a negative stigma to a medium article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223222 It's sad and entirely our fault. We didn't fail but we did lose our way. Here's how I see it: 1. Lost our way on recommen…

I think these are not the main pain points. The biggest issue for me is that medium makes me feel like a cash cow. The way it wants me to pay every step of the way, the way it hijacks copy/paste to insert its own marketing. The account it wants me to create. The trackers it inserts everywhere. You missed the step of making something great that people actually feel good about paying for. The grassroots "for users by u…

This is literally it.

Especially hijacking copy/paste, or text highlighting. It just brings the entire feeling of the place down.

Imagine walking into a nice high end restaurant, and the server tries to sell you a credit card before taking your order. Would you continue going to that restaurant?

That's what this sort of garbage does to my sentiment around websites that do it.

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