Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#261

Post by dinosaurdynasty » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:34 AM UTC

bonniemuffin wrote: post #230

m000 wrote: post #113

I would put this down to a growing part of the population feels financially insecure. As you grow older, spending quality time with people also requires spending $. If you are barely making some savings, you probably won't feel comfortable in scaling up your social life. It is surprising that the author recognizes the time period/age group... > These new habits are startling — and a striking departure from the past.…

My friend group is pretty economically diverse and also cost-conscious, and most of our social activities are free or nearly-free. We hang out in public parks, get together in each other's homes, and go hiking, camping, or to beaches. Optionally, you can put out some cheese and crackers and a cheap bottle of wine, and now you're all having a nice time together for $20. I'm well-off these days, but I still enjoy doing…

Try that when you're working 3 part time jobs at 70 hrs/wk to make ends meet, because most cities in this country are horribly expensive (especially housing/rent/etc).

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#262

Post by stuxnet79 » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:34 AM UTC

0F5 wrote: post #174

fleddr wrote: post #164

Not being lonely used to be automatic as society forced you to interact and meet with lots of people just to function. Religion might force you to church where you meet most of the community regularly. It goes far beyond just the purpose of religion. You'll know about every life event of every member, learn about businesses in the community, might meet new friends or even a spouse. The only social institute that come…

Wrong. My college chemistry textbook had a small aside about an important organic chemist in the 1920s who was responsible for many foundational organic chemistry techniques and theories. I forget his name. The blurb ended with his death — he committed suicide after lamenting that his friends always had female partners on the weekends while he, on the other hand, was always alone. The man died of loneliness in the 19…

For those curious who this is, it's Wallace Carothers, the inventor of Nylon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Carothers

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#263

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:43 AM UTC

flamebreath447 wrote: post #212

kibwen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, churches do have positive effects on the cohesion of a community. The problem is that the corruption of the churches has countered their positive effects with negative effects and soured people on the church as an institution. In theory, there's no reason we can't have communities with strong senses of cohesion without deferring to a church, but you have to actually build such a thing and not merely rely one to…

People have left churches for a plethora of reasons, many of which stem from the church itself being corrupt. But moreover, as you mentioned people want a sense of community without and of the accountability that Church asks. You don’t want to tithe because you don’t trust leadership with your money. You don’t want to be told you’re doing things wrong, or to fix some of your sins. You don’t want a judgmental group of…

[deleted]

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#264

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:44 AM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism.

When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corporations and legislators, and that makes everything bland, homogeneous and fungible.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#265

Post by unix_badger » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:45 AM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

No post body was provided.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#266

Post by NegativeK » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:46 AM UTC

foobarian wrote: post #123

EE84M3i wrote: post #92

I live in a big city, but I'm terribly lonely. - I live alone. - I work hybrid, but when I go into the office, it's more or less empty and I spend all my time on zoom calls. - My family lives far away. - I'm single. Most weeks, my only social interaction is at the local bar, where I'm a regular, or various dates from apps. Excesses of both of these is unhealthy in different ways. I've been pushing myself to go to mee…

As kid I spent time in an old fashioned Russian serf type village, where a bunch of families lived together and worked a bunch of strips of land. It was the best time I ever had. Everyone had a job to do, and they were happy to let you help. The tasks you were given seemed fulfilling and meaningful. Today is horrible. Nobody lives with family or knows neighbors around here. No more church. There are some craft clubs,…

> There are some craft clubs, but what's the point? Anything you can make pales in comparison to what you can get for a couple of bucks from Amazon.

This is unhealthy.

> There are a bunch of hobbies but they also seem pointless when you look at a few Youtube videos and see all the popular channels doing exactly what you would like to but a million times better.

This is unhealthy.

Over a decade ago, I had to accept that I'll never be the best at anything or even better than huge swaths of people in my line of work or in my hobby, and that's perfectly okay. There's only one best in the world. Most people who play basketball will never ever come close to the NBA. Setting out with failure in mind (even when you're not in pursuit of perfection) is great. Pointless, dumb play is amazing.

When I was a kid, I didn't compare my Lego play time with others. Or the time I spent riding my bike down a hill and jumping off it onto the grass to professional stunt performers.

The end product isn't what you walk away with; it's the time you spend enjoying doing something.

(On the flip side, pick the project. You don't need to compost to plant a garden, and you don't need to learn how to shave sheep or spin yarn to learn knitting.)

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#267

Post by qnt » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:48 AM UTC

cpsns wrote: post #97

EE84M3i wrote: post #92

I live in a big city, but I'm terribly lonely. - I live alone. - I work hybrid, but when I go into the office, it's more or less empty and I spend all my time on zoom calls. - My family lives far away. - I'm single. Most weeks, my only social interaction is at the local bar, where I'm a regular, or various dates from apps. Excesses of both of these is unhealthy in different ways. I've been pushing myself to go to mee…

I'm in a similar situation in a very rural area, except probably worse to some degree. I do have a couple of family members local, but there's no bars, zero dating potential, no hobby groups, and no events for people my age whatsoever. I've seriously considered moving to a city, but then I'll have to lose the tiny bit of social interaction I actually do have, my family. In some ways I want to believe I could build a…

mate honestly that sounds like you're cutting off your legs to save your toes.

you should take a backpacking holiday in a busy city somewhere (overseas?). If you have fun, try a working-holiday in a new city for a couple weeks. Maybe one you've been thinking of moving to?

just try it on. There's no downside.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#268

Post by chii » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:51 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #264

UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism. When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corp…

> makes everything bland, homogeneous and fungible.

which is what makes it cheap and available.

If you ran your own farm stand, the goods you produce would be some 2-5x more expensive than a factory farm could've sold for.

The modern wealth is predicated on such specialization and scaling. It's why artisanal products are so expensive.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#269

Post by prawn » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

bittercynic wrote: post #156

pbronez wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in an apartment? Who else lives on your building? In a decent sized building I bet you’re not the only lonely person. Find the other ones, and create some social thing that’s easy to say yes to. Dinner is straightforward. Other excuses include book clubs, movie viewings, crafts, community garden, volunteering, etc. For a dinner, if your apartment is small, use a common space. If you don’t have a common room,…

I think you are taking for granted a huge body of knowledge that some of us are lacking. Hosting a dinner gathering is complicated. What foods do you serve? What time? Do you complete all the food prep before guests arrive? If you are chatting over appetizers, how do you invite your guests to the table for the main meal? There's not just one right way to do these things, but if you're trying to host a dinner party fo…

Order takeaway - it's perfectly acceptable with the right framing. We have people around quite regularly and I like cooking, but still defer to takeaway at times: you're busy, or getting home from work too late to cook, heard about a new restaurant and wanted to see how their [dish] compared to others.

Don't overthink it. If you start early, have a drink first. If you want people to move to the table, say "Hey - I'm starving. Let's sit and eat!" My step-mother-in-law, literally every dinner she hosts says after initial chitchat, "Can I interest you in a cleansing ale?" Haha.

If you're nervous about what you've made, say "This is the first time I've made this, so apologies in advance!" If you don't know what to start with, just buy good bread and good oil or fancy butter and no one is going to execute you for that - all you have to do then is slice the bread. Save any pressure for the main meal. For dessert, break out a fancy block of chocolate and make a "Laboured all day over this" joke. Amongst friends, no one gets fussed about this.

You could literally say, "You know, I've never hosted anyone for dinner. I made a resolution to get comfortable doing it and the year's almost over. I'm trying to get 2-3 people together for a practice run."

Or to a sociable person you have some rapport with: "I have a couple of friends I'd like to have around for dinner but honestly, I'm pretty hopeless and have no idea what I'm doing. Assuming you know what you're doing, can you show me through it?"

Or find another hapless rookie and give it a shot together. Promise each other it will be an awkward disaster, so the only way is up.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#270

Post by chii » Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 5:53 AM UTC

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #199

edmundsauto wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Isn’t it more nuanced? In order for someone to not need a wife for laundry service, we rely on the manufacturer. We rely on electricity. It seems like we become more tightly dependent (single directional graph) on more people in order to feel superficially less intertwined. I think people need other people more tha…

> we rely on the manufacturer. We rely on electricity. We rely on having money. And we rely on a mature economy where someone is willing to solve every problem in exchange for that money. In an individualistic society, each person is expected to earn their own way and then pay to solve every problem they may have. In more community-oriented societies, personal earnings are less important than a strong network of frie…

> In more community-oriented societies, personal earnings are less important than a strong network of friends and family who can fulfill every need.

and as this community grew, accounting for such "favours" between friends/family become more important, and thus, the need for unit of accounts - aka money. You'd end up replicating the current system when given long enough time and a large enough community.