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Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

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Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#261

Post by collegeburner »

ceejayoz wrote: post #255
collegeburner wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and we hear a lot of stories of ppl from other "free healthcare" OECD countries having to come here for decent care. i'd rather a system where i can get better by paying more than a system where i'm at the mercy of some bureaucrat or waiting list. if you want to reduce costs: 1. stop giving the AMA a monopoly. ban state and local regulations on how much healthcare can be built and where. 2. require posting prices and…

> and we hear a lot of stories of ppl from other "free healthcare" OECD countries having to come here for decent care You'll hear that in both directions, to the point where the CDC has a page for Americans seeking care abroad, typically due to exorbitant costs here. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism > i'd rather a system where i can get better by paying more than a system where i'm at the mercy of so…

yeah but notice it's not people traveling to OECD free healthcare countries. it's mostly going to cheaper developing countries with clinics a lot like the oklahoma one i linked that specialize in procedures and offer them at reasonable prices.

private care over there just isn't the same. and yeah i dealt with insurance and specialists before and it sucks but at least money makes a difference and more money makes more difference and it's not just "lol get on the list and stfu"

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#262

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

WalterBright wrote: post #188
geysersam wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this rhyme with the fact that many countries have well functioning, tax financed healthcare systems?

Just because it's "free" doesn't mean you aren't paying plenty for it.

Healthcare efficiency costs in the US are huge.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/infographics/most-efficie...

We certainly pay for healthcare in the UK through taxation. It's pretty efficient. Hospitals aren't nice and shiny and medical people get paid a lot less though. I'll take that trade off myself anyday.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#263

Post by Gibbon1 »

notch656a wrote: post #167
missedthecue wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans also consume a lot more healthcare. And doctors and nurses earn 2x more than in other countries. An NHS nurse makes something like $33k a year. In the US it's going to be $60-70k before overtime.

I'd be curious to see what portion of US health care goes to salaries of licensed health care workers, and how the relates to labor costs of various middle men and administrators, as well as regulatory compliance people.

When you go to the doctor ask them if they think they are making more or less than your deductible for the visit.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#264

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

collegeburner wrote: post #260
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually like having your health insurance tied to your employment? To me it would be a huge worry if I lost a job and needed healthcare.

no. but i would rather good healthcare tied to employment then mediocre healthcare that's not. it doesn't seem like other countries have been able to achieve good healthcare not tied to employment so i think it's better to focus on liberalizing the market. btw it was the ridiculous wage and price controls that led to employers adding healthcare as a benefit... so doesnt seem like more government gonna fix it.

I have both in the UK. There's the NHS when I need it, but I also have private medical insurance to top it up. I don't worry if I lose my job, I just won't have the shiniest hospitals with flowers in reception, and I'll have longer waiting times.

The quality of the medical care itself (once you get it - there are long waiting lists in the NHS now due to Covid) is really about the same.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#265

Post by ceejayoz »

collegeburner wrote: post #261
ceejayoz wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and we hear a lot of stories of ppl from other "free healthcare" OECD countries having to come here for decent care You'll hear that in both directions, to the point where the CDC has a page for Americans seeking care abroad, typically due to exorbitant costs here. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism > i'd rather a system where i can get better by paying more than a system where i'm at the mercy of so…

yeah but notice it's not people traveling to OECD free healthcare countries. it's mostly going to cheaper developing countries with clinics a lot like the oklahoma one i linked that specialize in procedures and offer them at reasonable prices. private care over there just isn't the same. and yeah i dealt with insurance and specialists before and it sucks but at least money makes a difference and more money makes more…

> yeah but notice it's not people traveling to OECD free healthcare countries

"Medical tourists from the United States commonly travel to Mexico and Canada"

Canada isn't an OECD nation?

> at least money makes a difference

"The rich get healthcare before needier poor people who've been waiting longer" seems like a negative to me, on a societal level.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#266

Post by WalterBright »

ceejayoz wrote: post #254
WalterBright wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does not have a free market in health care.

Again, an entirely different argument, but what country does that you'd like to emulate? We've tried the "no regulation" thing in our past; it's where the term "snake oil salesman" comes from. "Free market healthcare" is just the right's version of "communism would work if it weren't for human nature".

Again, the US before 1968.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#267

Post by notch656a »

nightski wrote: post #204
acdha wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less so after you correct for all of the things which we have to pay for out of pocket: health insurance, copays, drugs, etc. but also things like education, childcare, retirement, transportation, and often housing. I’ve known a number of people from Europe or Asia and all of them commented on how they thought they’d be making more here based on the raw income numbers, and how much more stressful it was here because…

A lot of those things are based on life circumstances. If you have a large family in a major metropolitan area making the median income then yeah you might be worse off. If you are a tech worker in a small city or town then it can be quite lucrative. You have a lot of control over these variables, especially when younger.

>Less so after you correct for all of the things which we have to pay for out of pocket: health insurance, copays, drugs, etc. but also things like education, childcare, retirement, transportation, and often housing.

You end up paying for those things in other countries where you're provided them but not directly charged for it. The difference is in the USA for most of those if you don't pay you simply don't get the service, while in other countries you get the service but the tax-man may come and put you in jail if you don't pay for them. It's an individual choice but I prefer getting to pick (at least a little bit) how to spend that money personally rather than the government entirely deciding for me, although I can see how someone coming from a place where government does all that would find it uncomfortable.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#268

Post by teamonkey »

cameronh90 wrote: post #207
curo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this so often yet we left the UK for no other reason than the healthcare. My wife was pregnant and the experience from 0-7 months was so terrible, we flew to the US to have the child. Post-operative outcomes and survival rates in the US are far better than in the UK and many European countries. Statistics about better birth outcomes or higher longevity is best attributed to healthier lifestyles in Europe/U…

IHS is £624/yr, and what do you mean by NHS-specific tax? Overall, I probably pay more towards the NHS than I would for healthcare in the US, because I'm a comparatively high earner, and that's the nature of progressive taxation. The NHS seems fairly good value for money, however, although I think that may be due to how much we underpay nurses and doctors. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Many people do, and the s…

I assume they mean National Insurance, which gives the impression that it’s a NHS-specific tax, but isn’t.

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#269

Post by pezezin »

ekianjo wrote: post #102
telchior wrote: post #59

One of the items this article doesn't cover is healthcare spending, which has increased between 2 and 8 times since 1980 (depending on whether you're looking at individual spending or share of GDP). Here's a decent collection of charts: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe... It has been shocking to me to see how cheap and effective healthcare can be in other countries, from an emergency visit…

> In the US, healthcare is effectively a collection of cartels Not just in the US. For example there's a huge glasses cartel in France with specialists that are protected by the government and make pairs of glasses cost 500~1000 USD with very little reimbursement, while in Japan private companies (that actually compete against each other's) let you have glasses for 60~70 USD all included. You are literally better off…

I recently bought a pair of prescription sunglasses and I had to pay almost 35 000 yen, about 250 USD or EUR at the current exchange rate, the same I paid for the previous ones in Spain 5 years ago. I would love to know where I can get them for a quarter the price!

Re: Gen Z have 86% less purchasing power compared to baby boomers in their twenties

#270

Post by ceejayoz »

WalterBright wrote: post #266
ceejayoz wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, an entirely different argument, but what country does that you'd like to emulate? We've tried the "no regulation" thing in our past; it's where the term "snake oil salesman" comes from. "Free market healthcare" is just the right's version of "communism would work if it weren't for human nature".

Again, the US before 1968.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4193636/

> Of the members of the general population who reported they had “pains in the heart,” 25 percent did not see a physician (Andersen and Anderson, 1967).

Sounds awesome.

The article makes a pretty good case for your 1968 date being an attribution error - that years before it, the rise of things like transplants, ICUs, demographic changes, etc. were already messing up costs.

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