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Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

reuters.com

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Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#261

Post by yellowapple »

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #197
trhway wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries. sometimes there are situations when one can't be neutral. A genocidal war like the one Russia is waging in Ukraine is such a situation. >Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world. Like Saudis did. So, it is a personal choice of everybody - whether to live by Ru…

I wish I had enough karma to downvote you. You are either extremely uninformed ( to the point where stupidity is actually a better explanation than ignorance) or, more likely, maliciously spreading misinformation. Let me remove any kind of doubt. Ukraine is being invaded by a dictator deserving of all condemnation. Putin has started an illegal war and this is bad. No part of his actions are justifiable. What is not h…

> What is not happening in Ukraine however is a genocide.

How sure are you of that? It wouldn't be the first time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#262

Post by [deleted] »

jotm wrote: post #204
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #172

Tech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries. Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world. It's just a matter of time. When it was little nudges in color revolutions in relatively weak countries, there was not much to worry about. Now? They're playing with fire and the tech folks doesn't seem they have a clue…

I mean, what is the country going to do? At best they can launch a cyber attack (or a lot of them). Any physical action would immediately involve the host country - bombing the Facebook HQ for example could be considered a terrorist act or even a war declaration.

[deleted]

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#263

Post by yellowapple »

future-garten wrote: post #228
colinmhayes wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that this isn't genocide, but the russian forces are playing extremely loose with civilian casualties. It's clear that Putin is trying to destroy Ukrainian culture/independent spirit which could be considered a form of genocide I guess.

Back then when Soviet Union troops were in Afghanistan, I believe, that western propaganda used the same words: independent spirit, culture, freedom, civilian casualties. However, when USA troops came to Afghanistan... Of course american troops were fighting terrorists. They did no harm to civilians, they came to spread freedom, boost independent spirit, and significantly contributed to Afghan culture.

Just because the US does a bad thing doesn't mean Russia is justified in doing it.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#264

Post by ska »

lazide wrote: post #171
ska wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anyone who actually believes that. However, recognizing that objectivity in journalism is an ideal impossible to reach doesn't mean all variations are equal, or that attempting to hew closer to the idea is pointless. I think there is a reasonable argument the the general state of journalism and and availability of news to the general public is worse now than it was, say, 30 years ago. Or that 200 years a…

That view can only be supported by false nostalgia or a VERY selective reading of the material and history of the time IMO. It was a mess, widespread censorship, corruption, and yellow news was common, and it was a period of extreme social turmoil.

We're talking early to mid 90's. I agree it was bad on all those aspects - but some at least are arguably notably worse now. How it nets out isn't obvious.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#265

Post by aasasd »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #60
daenz wrote: post #21

The next Modern Warfare game is going to be very different than it's FPS predecessors.

I’m honestly hyped for a new golden age of movies and games where Russians are the bad guys. I feel like Russian bad guys always had more character and really made you want to see the hero outmaneuver them. Arabs just didn’t do it for me the last two decades.

Hollywood will again strike back at Russians by mangling their names and putting up jumble of Cyrillic instead of a single actual Russian word.

Lshtshfum Ashchf will again outmaneuver the baddies and turn out to be the American Universal Hero: Jason Bond by day, Iron Batman by night.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#266

Post by true_religion »

gruez wrote: post #260
georgyo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to remove morality from the discussion temporarily, and instead talk about how practical that is. A post breaks a law in 100 countries, but does not break the law in 20 countries. Should all 100 countries file their own removal process? Should there be an army of reviewers who are knowledgeable about all laws reviewing all posts? What about that confusion that different people from different regions are se…

Okay, what's the alternative? Only following US law? That's just going to end up with the service being blocked in other countries. Follow the strictest law? The you end up having to cave to blasphemy laws in despotic countries.

Well, not specific to US law… but it’s good for companies to simply only follow the laws of their own home nation. If this creates an unfair situation, then the country’s can work together to come to consensus.

I would love to see the allied governments talk more about trade pacts, and economic issues.

As for getting your service blocked, look at the GDPR for example. People will self censor themselves entirely if you are important enough. Out of mere fear of being sued over cookies, US regional media sites stopped displaying in Europe voluntarily. That’s something tin pot dictators couldn’t do even when they were clear the content of US news sites was illegal to the point of being punishable by death.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#267

Post by lazide »

ska wrote: post #264
lazide wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That view can only be supported by false nostalgia or a VERY selective reading of the material and history of the time IMO. It was a mess, widespread censorship, corruption, and yellow news was common, and it was a period of extreme social turmoil.

We're talking early to mid 90's. I agree it was bad on all those aspects - but some at least are arguably notably worse now. How it nets out isn't obvious.

Oops, I thought I was in the comment thread I replied to that was explicitly calling out the 60’s.

The 90’s have tons of examples of manipulation (Gulf War 1?), as do the 80’s, 70’s, etc etc.

It’s hard to contextualize any of that without being embedded in it though. What age were you then?

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#268

Post by ska »

lazide wrote: post #267
ska wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking early to mid 90's. I agree it was bad on all those aspects - but some at least are arguably notably worse now. How it nets out isn't obvious.

Oops, I thought I was in the comment thread I replied to that was explicitly calling out the 60’s. The 90’s have tons of examples of manipulation (Gulf War 1?), as do the 80’s, 70’s, etc etc. It’s hard to contextualize any of that without being embedded in it though. What age were you then?

If you are talking about mine, it never did. I haven't edited it, it refers to 30 years ago or 200. The one I was replying to didn't either, at least when I read it.

Perhaps you meant something upstream or a sibling comment?

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#269

Post by saurik »

monklu wrote: post #82
gambler wrote: post #40

If you need to change your platform's rules for literally every major event (elections, Covid, this war) there is something profoundly wrong both with your rules and your platform. There is tremendous value in having actual principles. So many people either forgotten it or never understood that to begin with.

On the contrary, I think this says less about FB, but more so reflects a hypocrisy in "western principles" that many are probably not self-aware of. Let's assume for a second, that FB do not relax their rules for this conflict. Then they would have to ban a whole sleuth of Ukrainian accounts, including many government accounts such as Ministry of Defense, and probably even Zelensky. You don't have to stretch your ima…

I don't think you are disagreeing at all: you are merely stating the result of not having principles. Yes: if you take a principled stance, sometimes you make "negative" headlines... but the honest reality here is that Facebook makes tons of negative headlines anyway, so they not only have to bear that cost but they additionally come off as, well, unprincipled.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#270

Post by landemva »

mancerayder wrote: post #71
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating that people believe that there was ever an unbiased, objective news media. This literally has never been the case in the total history of the industry. Journalists are paid to contextualize the data they find, not to regurgitate it.

They used to try. Surely you can conceptualize a spectrum whereby on one the one side, people try very hard to be objective and be good at it, then where maybe they try a little less hard, or lack knowledge, or whatnot, and then continuing on the spectrum, where people throw up their hands and proclaim that no one can be objective, so who cares anyway. I cannot accept the framing as only the last one: that we've magi…

NYT has history of not being objective. 1930s New York Times purposefully lied about famine in Ukraine which purposefully starved millions. Walter Duranty got a Pulitzer Prize for that fake journalism. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/re...
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