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Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

journals.plos.org

261–270 of 280 posts

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister had this. Even today (5 months after infection) she says some things taste and smell funny. She can't eat mint ice cream anymore because she says it tastes like cigarettes.

Can relate. Been 3 months since I recovered. Sense of smell has recovered definitely but since the past 2-3 weeks I've noticed it's still not fully there. A rare house plant blooming in the night which for everyone at home triggers a strong sweet fragrance which can be sensed even on the second floor, for me it was like a lingering placebo. Additionally, there is this weird stench that permeates everything I eat. I c…

> Additionally, there is this weird stench that permeates everything I eat. I can't explain it, just a kind of smell I've never come across

Yes, this is exactly what she describes. The closest she could get to describing it was "cigarettes" when I pressed her, but she really insisted should couldn't even characterize it.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely making this claim in good faith. Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? They don’t exist. To date I’ve yet to see a single cost benefit analysis done for any of this. It simply wasn’t allowed to be done… you’d get shouted down by the mob. It worries me greatly how little critical thinking has been applied to the last 17+ months. I…

> Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? And predictably the goalposts shift. First it was that we "cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all". Now it's that the results don't "justify their immense costs to society". > and even then we didn’t know it would work going in, Again: Lockdowns are a basic application of germ theory. Th…

> Again: Lockdowns are a basic application of germ theory.

> The only way they could not work is if infection didn't pass from human to human but was transmitted via miasma or aether.

A public measure and overall behavior are two different things. Lockdown as a behavior is clearly effective in theory and practice. But as public measure, in many cases people stopped to comply sufficiently so that at best you see a flatting effect.

You wouldn’t try to fight HIV with monogamy (as measure). It’s just against human nature of a sufficiently large part of the population.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doctors are surprised that COVID may do the same? Because we all decided to collectively forget every single thing we know about respiratory viruses and infectious diseases. Somehow because covid is "novel" the world needed to rebuild our entire knowledge base from the ground up. A good example is how lasting t-cell immunity was dismissed for the longest time (and still is in many circles). People apparently seemed…

> If we kept getting infected with the same virus over and over... humanity would have died off a long time ago.... But it's only recently (~50-100 years) that we travel around the world so much, would covid-19 have propagated like it's doing now 300 or 2000 years ago ?

I can't edit but in the mean time I have been reading a bit of the Wikipedia page about the black plague in Europe and a world less connected than ours still can burn from a fast spreading virus.

And there's been plague outbursts in recent years.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Garmin watch model do you have ?

I have a Garmin Fenix 6 Pro, which I had before I got sick with COVID-19. However, it is spendy (expensive). I did a search and Body Battery is available on cheaper models like the Garmin Vivosmart 4 ($129 USD). I put into DuckDuckGo and verified: "Garmin" AND "vivosmart" AND "body battery" Link to Garmin Vivosmart 4: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/605739 Proof: https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/vivosmart4/E…

Thanks for your searching, much appreciated :).

I won't get a non-replaceable band one though, I have a tendency to sweat them to death :/.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#265
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fine, convince me. Why do you need a control group? We know that typical people don't just randomly get coughs on a daily basis. Anyway: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... A pretty small study (250-ish people) but plenty of evidence for long-haul COVID19, since ~20+% of them got long-haul COVID19. ----------- Random, normally functioning adults don't have breathing issues under normal c…

> Why do you need a control group? We know that typical people don't just randomly get coughs on a daily basis. Because this is science, not a spread in the New York Times. And if you read the link to the paper I cited, you'd see that "typical people" do randomly get these "symptoms" on a regular basis (I'm coughing right now!) And in fact, once you control for this, you find out that some of what you thought was "lo…

There is a certain kind of person who is stuck in their belief and they will do everything they can to ensure that their belief system remains in one piece. They will raise the bar for evidence that contradicts their belief to the point that no such evidence remains, they will lower the bar for evidence that confirms their belief. They will ascribe to figments of the imagination of others when it comes to their personal experiences (because 'anecdote') and will claim to be doing science while ignoring the fact that science is by definition pretty messy until it has settled.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Garmin instinct have that function and works great. There are way cheaper options like the Fitbit charge, it also has a body-battery and is very accurate. BTW I never had covid but if my body battery gets below 20, I also feel like shit. That´s the point I guess.

Thank you for the recommendation, which is thoughtful. One thing that you may want to keep in mind: Garmin has to follow GDPR, while FitBit (Google) does not. You may not want Google (e.g. YouTube) serving you ads when it knows you are in a very low body battery state, for example.

Why doesn't Google have to follow GDPR in this case ?

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's piles of evidence that shows they're extremely effective. Heck, in my own city, we saw a massive spike brewing prior to Christmas, and once a lockdown was instituted, the numbers immediately began to fall. That pattern is repeated anywhere you care to look. That isn’t proof. I could very easily claim it was seasonality or things well beyond our control that caused cases to go down. And I am probably right.…

This post is classic Dunning-Kruger. Florida arrested a statistician who was attempting to publish the real death toll. So can we seriously accept thier count as the truth? California and New York were hit before they could implement lockdowns. I don't understand why hundreds of thousands of deaths is okay for the right wingers like you?

> Florida arrested a statistician who was attempting to publish the real death toll. So can we seriously accept thier count as the truth?

If you actually want to know, the answer is "look at excess deaths." You can game the numbers for confirmed COVID deaths by doing less testing but it's a lot harder to hide the raw number of people dying. Per NYT[1], as of March 6, 2021 (which is when their data ends), Florida had 31,616 confirmed COVID deaths and 35,900 excess deaths (1.14 excess deaths per COVID death, 1,671 excess deaths per million) and California had 51,974 COVID / 69,800 excess (1.34 excess deaths per COVID death, 1,767 excess deaths per million). Since then California's wave has subsided a bit faster than Florida's but either way the difference in outcomes between the two states is very small.

> California and New York were hit before they could implement lockdowns.

This is true of New York. It is not true of California.

California was not hit particularly hard before it could implement lockdowns, and in fact before winter of 2020 it was doing much better than most states. In the first 6 months after people started taking COVID seriously (mid March 2020 to mid September 2020), about 15,000 Californians died of confirmed COVID cases, or about 375 people per million (and excess deaths track at pretty much a constant multiple with the level of confirmed COVID deaths). Since mid October, there have been another 48,000 confirmed COVID deaths in California. 35,000 of those happened in the 3 month period between December 1 2020 and March 1 2021. Not coincidentally, that period is also when restrictions were at their most severe: starting around November 25, outdoor dining was banned, parks and beaches and campgrounds were closed, a curfew was put into effect, travel was restricted, and so on. Cases continued to rise for the following month after that, peaking in early January.

Really, there is significant reason to doubt that government-imposed restrictions (as opposed to behavior changes people were going to make whether they were mandatory or not), as they were actually implemented in the US, had very much positive impact at all. It's not so much a question of "are the deaths ok?" as it is one of "is this actually helping, or is it just doing something visible so that the politicians can say they tried?".

I know this is an emotionally charged topic, and we probably won't have a clear picture of what worked and didn't work for at least a few years. But certainly government-mandated restrictions were not a slam-dunk obviously effective and worthwhile solution in the way that vaccines were.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#268

Since they claim a quarter of patients are showing symptoms and one of those is depression - how do they separate the out the effect of the de facto criminalization of social activity, an innate human behavior ingrained in our DNA after millions of years of evolution? You'd get significant depression in solitary confinement too.

No idea why you're getting downvoted - they have no control group and as you say there's 'depression' in their symptoms they count for. I'm pretty sure 'depression' (which I'm sure they don't count as clinically depressed, but 'im feeling more depressed') went up significantly in the whole population last year. Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review.

> Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review.

That is absolutely not true, PLOS ONE has proper peer-review, their review guidelines just focus on technical soundness and de-emphasize subjective noteworthiness.

(As a personal anecdote, I managed to get one of my papers rejected from PLOS ONE once...)

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#269

So, to summarize this study, they basically just asked a few hundred people that had Covid in the past if they had recently felt tired, depressed, had trouble sleeping, etc., and then reported that a number of the people they asked this replied yes. That's it. There was no medical evaluation of whether the reported symptoms even had a medical cause. There was no comparison to the answers a random control sampling of…

A doctor friend of mine has had it for months. She's had test after test after test. Things come back abnormal but they can't pin down what's wrong with her to treat it. The assumption is long covid - she has the tiredness, brain fog etc. So right now I'm not sure if they really know how to test for it.

One of the things that keeps popping up on my wife's feeds is that Covid seems to be giving people auto-immune antibodies. So, the body appears to be continuing to low level attack the circulatory system, organs, etc.

Basically, we're looking at a massive increase in auto-immune diseases in the next couple years, and you're doctor friend should talk to nearby Rheumatologists about one of the biologic drug trials.

Again, based on the buzz from places like creakyjoints.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, if there is any benefit to having that level of certainty (and not to satisfy internet naysayers) then I may still do this, but I have received my shot (Jansen) because there are still some immunological benefits from that and it helps in a regulatory sense as well (lots of doors are closed to people that have not been vaccinated). What matters to me is that I got through it, still live pretty carefully ev…

You might consider it if insurance puts up a fight but there's no utility in getting a T-cell test just to try to win arguments on the Internet.

Insurance? For what? I did not end up in hospital and where I live medical problems do not end up (normally) as financial problems as well.
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