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Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

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Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#241

Post by spookthesunset »

wesleywt wrote: post #224
spookthesunset wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's piles of evidence that shows they're extremely effective. Heck, in my own city, we saw a massive spike brewing prior to Christmas, and once a lockdown was instituted, the numbers immediately began to fall. That pattern is repeated anywhere you care to look. That isn’t proof. I could very easily claim it was seasonality or things well beyond our control that caused cases to go down. And I am probably right.…

This post is classic Dunning-Kruger. Florida arrested a statistician who was attempting to publish the real death toll. So can we seriously accept thier count as the truth? California and New York were hit before they could implement lockdowns. I don't understand why hundreds of thousands of deaths is okay for the right wingers like you?

For what it’s worth I am a solid democratic voter my entire life. My political party betrayed me… I’m a little ticked about it. But thanks for making snap judgments.

And even if you take the person from Florida who was arrested’s claims as true, it doesn’t change my argument at all. The shape of their curve matches everybody else’s curve no matter whose dataset you look at. If lockdowns worked in any meaningful fashion, why does New York, California, Arizona, South Dakota and Florida all have the same curves?

I assert the lockdowns and masks did very little. Mere rain dances performed by frightened people who fooled themselves into thinking mankind could somehow control an airborne respiratory virus. It’s peak human arrogance.

If that makes me a right winger in your eyes, so be it.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#242

Post by dragontamer »

timr wrote: post #230
cycomanic wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong that long covid evidence is anecdotal. It is a clinical diagnosis though (i.e. it's diagnosed based on symptoms). I think you also severely underestimate the effect this had on people, and symptoms are not generally compatible with depression. Patients often show reduced lung capacity of 60%. The brain fog is also often much more severe than just not being able concentrate a bit, people can't do simple c…

> You're wrong that long covid evidence is anecdotal. Fine, convince me. Provide a citation from a study where: 1) the results are NOT gathered by survey from a self-selected population 2) the study is pre-registered, with endpoints determined in advance 3) the study is prospective , longitudinal and randomized 4) there is a control group 5) the participants are verified to actually have Covid 6) a significant effect…

> Fine, convince me.

Why do you need a control group? We know that typical people don't just randomly get coughs on a daily basis.

Anyway: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

A pretty small study (250-ish people) but plenty of evidence for long-haul COVID19, since ~20+% of them got long-haul COVID19.

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Random, normally functioning adults don't have breathing issues under normal circumstances. There's just no need for a control group in that kind of study. The only question is how long do symptoms last for COVID19 patients.

There's a bit of self-selection since these individuals decided to get a COVID19 test to begin with. But otherwise, the % of long-haul COVID19 is high enough that we know its a real thing.

For you to be suggesting that long-haul COVID19 is entirely made up is just... ignoring the evidence we have available. You're making perfect the enemy of good: studies don't need to be "perfect" in every way to provide evidence.

-----------

Besides, you're playing "judo" with the argument. If you want to convince ME that long-haul COVID19 is fake news, YOU are the one who has to pull up the study indicating evidence in your favor.

I'm perfectly fine leaving this argument where it is and walking away. I don't _need_ to convince you of anything to be satisfied.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#243

Post by hourislate »

lambdaba wrote: post #56
mygoodaccount wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another one here (Woman, 24 y.o.). Contracted COVID, had a terrible three-weeks of infection. Nine months later, I am having weekly heart palpitations, I'm constantly fatigued and fogged in the mind and my lung capacity is half what it used to be - I now require an inhaler to go on my runs. I know several women my age experiencing far worse. Long COVID should not be ignored.

I hope this is taken the right way, but have you tried "vitamins" (broadly speaking)? Some I have seen with specific effects: Niacin, Black Seed Oil (Nigella Sativa), Magnesium megadoses, etc. etc. Don't dismiss these as "quack medicines", I've recovered from severe chronic illness thanks to some of these... I could expand if people ask, but really it's quite easy, especially for the HN crowd, to level-up rapidly on…

All the things you mentioned are very healthy to take. You're not wrong in suggesting they're worth a try if all else fails. Don't know if they can cure anyone but what the hell do you have to lose at this point if you're feeling like shit from the Corona.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#244

Post by hourislate »

mygoodaccount wrote: post #10
jacquesm wrote: post #3

One of those cases here. Symptoms: suddenly out of energy, occasionally suddenly being unable to spell, even mild physical exercise leaves me floored (and I was pretty fit for my age prior to this). So, 17 months in: it's still not back to where it used to be but if you think of it in terms of trends instead of absolutes it is definitely still improving. The downs are less far down, the fog is lifting and the energy…

Another one here (Woman, 24 y.o.). Contracted COVID, had a terrible three-weeks of infection. Nine months later, I am having weekly heart palpitations, I'm constantly fatigued and fogged in the mind and my lung capacity is half what it used to be - I now require an inhaler to go on my runs. I know several women my age experiencing far worse. Long COVID should not be ignored.

Maybe you ought to take it easy and walk instead of running. Is it possible you might be damaging your lungs and not letting them heal?

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#245

Post by sethammons »

ljf wrote: post #133
deregulateMed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to ask the commenters in this thread who have long covid if they are overweight/obese or have a medical condition. But... I don't want to get flagged.

Hey can only talk for my wife (got covid late March 2020) 40yo, not over weight, was at the gym 4 days a week, could squat and deadlift 50kg, very active life. Only 'pre existing' was coeliac disease and very very mild asthma. Like barely ever took a blue inhaler but had one in the house. Other that That fit and healthy and very active. Inital covid as bad, but after 2 weeks was nearly back to normal, then breathing…

all the same on my end and for my wife. My wife was training for crossfit regional games a couple years ago, and I wasn't a slouch myself. We also have sleeping issues, heart rate all over, numbness, brain fog. Exercise is such a struggle. We both tested negative for covid antibodies. :shrug:

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#246

Post by TaupeRanger »

fragmede wrote: post #239
TaupeRanger wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frustrating but it's not a blind spot - we simply have no way to help these patients. You have brain fog and occasionally your heart feels like it's beating out of your chest for no discernable reason? Sorry, there's nothing we can do...try exercising and getting good sleep, we guess?

We (humanity) can still treat the symptoms - and the damage they cause. Eg the specific mechanism for covid-induced heart palpitations may not yet be understood, but a heart rate of 160 or even higher for prolonged periods will damage the heart. Beta blockers will manage that - but not all doctors have been willing to prescribe medication to people that clearly need it.

Rarely have I heard of sustained 160 BPM heart rate as a post-COVID symptom. Likely something else would be going on there. Mostly it's vague symptoms, maybe you have 90-120 BPM, but then it goes away by the time you see the doctor the next day. Beta blockers have their own problems and you don't want to just start prescribing them for these vague, transient symptoms.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#247

Post by fragmede »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #209
jacquesm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, well let's just say that coincidentally I had a viral infection that has the exact same symptoms as COVID, has the same long term effects as are reported in many cases of COVID and which coincidentally happened to be timed to match the first wave of that particular pandemic, but according to you it wasn't COVID when it wasn't confirmed as such with a test. Consider the alternative: you would have to come up wi…

> let's just say that coincidentally I had a viral infection that has the exact same symptoms as COVID, has the same long term effects as are reported in many cases of COVID and which coincidentally happened to be timed to match the first wave of that particular pandemic That happened to a lot of people. The first wave in March wasn't very big compared to later months. You mentioned the flu season didn't happen in a…

Extreme fatigue for months after is not neatly explainable. Myalgic Encehalomyelitis/CFS is similar, but when other symptoms are included (weird skin rash, heart palpations, smell issues, GI trouble), the simpler explanation is Covid. A deeper reading on long Covid symptoms may prove informational as the cluster of symptoms is fairly unique and unexplainable.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#248

Post by strikhedonia »

spookthesunset wrote: post #240
strikhedonia wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think asking people to wear a piece of cloth over their face and maybe not go out to eat if they’re vulnerable is “truly horrific?” Seems to me that, for the vulnerable portion of the population, the social distancing guidelines worked perfectly. Spend a year chilling at home in safety, get a vaccine, go back to normal. “Rain dance?” Bullshit.

Where is your proof any of it worked. And saying “chilling at home in safety” shows extreme privilege. Like, it boggles my head how privileged and detached people in this industry are from ordinary people. The privileged work from home class who posts here all gets to work “safely from home” on the backs of an expendable lower class workforce who takes all the risks. What happened over the course of the last 17+ mont…

You seem to be assuming that:

- I’m a tech worker

- I work from home

Neither of which are true. As an ‘essential’ worker, I found it deplorable how dismissive people are of our situation and display belligerence towards basic, near zero-cost safety measures, such as wearing a mask. Which, as the data suggest, was likely beneficial in allowing myself and many of my coworkers to avoid covid. Granted, we no longer wear masks, as they are no longer necessary.

I further find your argument regarding some nebulous, broad-scale wealth transfer unmoving. Personal incomes did well in my country for all income brackets during the pandemic. Doubtless, the situation served to funnel money large tech companies, but this seems an inevitable outcome regardless of government action.

In any case, you are clearly quite cemented in your position. Further discussion would be nonproductive.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#249

Post by ping_pong »

c6401 wrote: post #232
ping_pong wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but Covid wasn't in Osaka in November 2019. You definitely had some other disease like the flu.

Given it was in the US at least in December 2019 if not earlier according to the NIH retrospective serology study it doesn't seem to be completely impossible. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-offe... Also similar Italian serology study by National Cancer Institute showed that sars-cov-2 was circulating in Italy as early as September 2019. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-it…

No. It's impossible. There was no outbreak in Osaka. A disease as virulent as Covid with only a single person infected is not likely at all.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#250

Post by Aachen »

barefeg wrote: post #54

Interested in knowing how this statistic changes for a vaccinated population

For what it's worth, I did recently read somewhere (Wikipedia long covid page? Vaccines page? Not sure, but think it was in the last sentence of the intro) that uninfected vaccinated people do not report any long-covid-like effects. That's not exactly what you're asking but last week it was finally my turn for a first shot and this was something that I was a bit worried about, since we are injecting viral parts and we don't know what causes the long cases. Getting covid is obviously more risky so I got the vaccine and would have chosen to get the second dose too regardless, but I remember looking for this info a few months ago and there was nothing yet.

Maybe there is now also data on what you're asking, I think I might have seen a paper about that when I looked for this related question but it's been too long to remember what the title might have been.

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