Earlier quoted context omitted.
Developers don’t have to purchase Apple products or develop for Apple products either.
What? You need an Apple machine to use Xcode.
Why would you buy one if you don’t like Apple?
About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
261–270 of 484 posts
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stop defending Apple and their shitty behavior. > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software How is it 2020 and we're okay with this phrase? What the hell happened? Apple is an enemy of computing and the DOJ needs to break them up.
No. You just need to not buy an Apple product. Apple is a friend of people who want a curated store. There are other options for those who don’t.
You can't buy an apple product, you can only rent it.
The recent development in rights to self repair makes this even clearer.
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not a straw man. I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. It is absolutely a feature, and a beneficial one at that, which many people want. As for Apple allowing people to install other stores - why should they? Why not just buy an Android phone if you want that feature.
> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. Frankly, that's not your decision to make. If they own the device, they get to decide. If they don't or are too young, then you can use various controls (i.e parental controls) to lock your devices down the way you want. This is a straw man.
It’s absolutely my decision by to make if they ask me to recommend something to them. Especially if they have been having problems with malware and that’s why they are asking.
If they own the device they get to use it as it was designed to be used.
They also have the legal right to change it themselves (at least in the US).
What you don’t have is any basis for forcing Apple to design software the way you want, or to force my family members not to be able to follow my recommendation to choose iOS as Apple wants to offer it to them.
That’s between them and Apple and me.
What right do have to dictate how any of these three parties choose to interact?
There is no straw man.
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
> people who want a curated store This is a straw man. Support allowing users to add alternate stores on iOS devices. Having one choice is not freedom. And it has nothing to do with curration. If Apple's model is superior, then their app store will win against fair competition .
It’s not a straw man. I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. It is absolutely a feature, and a beneficial one at that, which many people want. As for Apple allowing people to install other stores - why should they? Why not just buy an Android phone if you want that feature.
Reminds me of the browser wars, and how Microsoft handled the threat of euro antitrust fines: https://phys.org/news/2009-07-eu-microsoft-unbundle-explorer...
Not sure how that affected elsewhere and IE is still bundled where I live but nevertheless reminiscent.
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#265This isn’t sustainable. Software developers can’t build on a foundation that is constantly, capriciously shifting. This on top of the App Store's already-onerous restrictions and the fact that it’s the only practical way to get your software on one of the world's largest computing platforms has already engendered a deep antipathy [1] among Apple developers, and there are no signs it’s getting better. Something has to…
They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…
> Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule.
If you think curl or wget are evil unapproved software I don't see how presenting a rational argument as a counterpoint could possibly be of any benefit. Sometimes I forget that people with such opinions actually exist.
This is almost literally like the people I've seen freak out about seeing someone do complex things from the command line in a public place (coffee shop, etc) and jump to the wildly wrong conclusion that something was being "hacked".
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not suggesting consumer behavior should change Apple. I’m suggesting that consumers should buy a product that that suits their needs. If you need alternate stores - buy Android. There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything.
> There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything. Apple impacts businesses, consumers, engineers - multiple industries - with their bad behavior. Apple has an illegal platform and it must be regulated. They've captured 50% of the United States computing market and illegally inserted themselves as middleman into every transaction, every software install. They punish everyone trying to do business and…
> Apple impacts businesses, consumers, engineers - multiple industries - with their bad behavior
Unfortunately the alternative is letting businesses and engineers impact the life of their own customers negatively.
Developers had way too much power to screw up users for years, and they did: spying and tracking behind our backs. Mandatory rootkits [1]. Piracy Protection and DRM that did way more than advertised and caused nuisance for paying customers. Rootkits on music albums. Apple has fixed or is trying to fix most of those.
If government wants to step up to regulate developers, small or big, maybe it's fine. But until then then Apple has provided the best solution to toxic developers.
Sure you can say "you can't just not install the app from the toxic developer", but then why isn't it ok to use the "you can just not buy an iPhone" argument?
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not a straw man. I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. It is absolutely a feature, and a beneficial one at that, which many people want. As for Apple allowing people to install other stores - why should they? Why not just buy an Android phone if you want that feature.
> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. Frankly, that's not your decision to make. If they own the device, they get to decide. If they don't or are too young, then you can use various controls (i.e parental controls) to lock your devices down the way you want. This is a straw man.
This isn't straw man. It's been used twice in this thread incorrectly.
Frankly, it's also my families decision to use Facebook, and they have the freedom to use it, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to discourage them from using the platform. Just because that's their decision doesn't mean they are properly informed about their technical decisions or understand the impact. If absolute distribution freedom was a major concern for them I'd tell them to buy Androids.
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it only works until Apple stops signing your certificate, then it's not "unapproved".
This is not a realistic scenario, but even if it was there's a trivial workaround: sign up for a new account. And at the end of the day, what made you buy that iDevice? Raw hardware? You can buy any old ARM tablet if that's what you want. You probably bought that iDevice because you want the secure device, with a full stack and ecosystem, which includes ongoing work from Apple to provide OS patches for security holes…
If a comet hits CA tomorrow and the company collapses, do you think I would still be able to "control" my device? What about patching it up or installing a new system?
People who buy iOS devices don't control them. Full stop.
Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#269Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not suggesting consumer behavior should change Apple. I’m suggesting that consumers should buy a product that that suits their needs. If you need alternate stores - buy Android. There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything.
> There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything. Apple impacts businesses, consumers, engineers - multiple industries - with their bad behavior. Apple has an illegal platform and it must be regulated. They've captured 50% of the United States computing market and illegally inserted themselves as middleman into every transaction, every software install. They punish everyone trying to do business and…
>They've become their own banana republic.
It's insane that you would compare selling a superior product on a largely free market, to a CIA-backed coup of a foreign independent nation. Can you please point to me to the people Apple murdered to capture their market? This is some incredible anti-Apple rhetoric.
Meanwhile, in our currently implemented "open" platform you have engineers running amok with the personal data of millions of Americans.