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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#261

Post by epicureanideal »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #215
tptacek wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? Is there a statute you're thinking of that requires San Francisco to spell out specifically what their goals are? You said upthread that the lockdown is a violation of people's constitutional rights, but it seems clear that it isn't, at least not in our jurisprudence. You can find legal scholars debating the constitutionality of quarantine, but only in the context of hypothetical orders that haven'…

I require San Francisco to spell out what their goals are! I fundamentally reject the idea that it's our duty as citizens to shut up and do whatever London Breed thinks is best. If she's not willing to explain why these emergency restrictions are necessary and how we'll know when they aren't necessary, we shouldn't comply.

Yes, even if this isn't required by the letter of the law, it certainly does seem to be required by the spirit of US law that the people are not mere subjects to be ordered around. At least in spirit, they deserve to be informed, so that they can make an informed decision about whether they believe their representatives are behaving reasonably. And if they don't agree, they can vote them out, or exercise their free speech rights to voice their dissatisfaction.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#262

Post by beefalo »

smallgovt wrote: post #40
throwlaplace wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How is it moral to order people to shelter in place when their risk of death is 0.01% for 18-45 year olds How brave of you to sacrifice people other than yourself. Everyone advocating for this should have to forfeit %50 of their earnings for the next 10 years to fund the medical care of all of those affected. That way at least everyone has some skin in the game.

To be fair, the cost of COVID medical care pales in comparison to the likely impact on future earnings these shutdowns are having. If it's strictly about money, we should cease shutdowns immediately. But, it's not. People are dying.

The future earnings of dead people is 0

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#263

Post by ultrarunner »

dustingetz wrote: post #253
ultrarunner wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I intentionally moved from reddit to HN after this same specific realization. After a few years it seemed like reddit would be a good place for hyper local info on covid, but I quickly saw the same effect— misanthropy in the face of so many people trying to do the best they could for others during hard times. It’s off topic here, but I seriously wonder what specifically caused reddit to adopt the largely toxic cultur…

Reddit was the only place with covid info in January! And then in Feb, HN penalized coronavirus keyword as fake news.

Reddit was a good source early on, by it was fairly quickly overrun with doomsayers.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#264

Post by zizee »

smallgovt wrote: post #155
scott_s wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen you say similar things in a few other threads, and myself and others have said, every time: the risk to everyone is that the hospitals become overwhelmed. They are not right now because of stay-at-home orders. What you think of as failure - hospitals currently low utilization - is in fact success .

What is your reaction to Sweden's COVID track? They didn't shut down daily life, and their hospitals are doing just fine. In fact, COVID cases and deaths have plateaued. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866

From the linked article:

> data suggests the vast majority of the population have taken to voluntary social distancing, which is the crux of Sweden's strategy to slow the spread of the virus.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#265

Post by Skunkleton »

nickysielicki wrote: post #140

Everyone in here is arguing about data and forgetting the context -- we entered this whole mess in a country that has never been so divided. Of course that's relevant. Of course that doesn't go away. The only question that you have to ask is whether you're on Team Fauci or Team Trump. Why the hell would anyone ever expect the SF local government to ever find themselves on Team Trump, if given the option?

What are you talking about? The federal government has been basically a no show in this crisis. The state government is doing its best to avoid the scenario that Wuhan experienced where the hospitals were overwhelmed and the mortality rate shot up to 17%. I’m sure that there are other approaches, but this is the one most of the world is taking, and is their best guess at how to arrive at a good long term outcome.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#266

Post by nradov »

walterbell wrote: post #162

People forget that there is no law which can put everyone under house arrest. This is all done voluntarily. Why is it ok for people to shop at Walmart and not at their local small business that sells the same goods and is better equipped to enforce social distancing, with customers explicitly opting in to visit the smaller store? If a small business can protect workers and customers, and a comparable large business i…

If nothing else, at least we'll come out of this pandemic with some clear Supreme Court decisions to clarify what emergency powers state and local governments actually have. One nuance that people seem to miss is that timing matters. So a very short restriction on Constitutional rights may be acceptable, but the court places increasing scrutiny on those restrictions the longer they remain in place.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#267

Post by anyyw »

anm89 wrote: post #221

The reddit hive mind has become terrifying. It has seriously had a tangible effect on my faith in humanity. I never got onto Twitter but I assume it's about the same.

Agreed, especially when it comes to how easy it is to build a bias. It seems it’s impossible to find any viewpoints that differ from what the hive mind consensus, even if it’s devils advocate or constructive. This likely applies to all forms of social media, including hn.

I do my best to keep within more niche subreddits that mostly focus of interests, but sometimes I find myself pulled into r/all.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#268

Post by vkou »

usaar333 wrote: post #198
cactus2093 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue. We may have plateaued but we haven't yet seen a significant drop from the peak yet. 4 days ago there were 115 deaths, then 93 the next day, then 89 the next, that's as high as the peak you're referring to. Source - daily department of health releases https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/OPA/Pages/New-Release-2020.... The drop you are inferring from your graph appears to be a be a reflection of a noisy dat…

We should separate LA from ex-LA. Bay area has peaked.. if you exclude nursing homes (which the lockdown relatively failed to protect), it's even sharper of a drop. https://covid-19.direct/metro/BayArea

Unless you intend to setup border checkpoints, with two-week quarantine camps for people traveling from LA to the Bay area, you have to look holistically at the region.

It doesn't make one whit of sense to ban flights from Paris, but allow anyone who feels like it to drive up from LA.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#269

Post by [deleted] »

glofish wrote: post #242
bobthepanda wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of any lockdowns which are specifically targeted at small retailers while competing large retailers are allowed to be open. Where I am the small coffee shops are closed for walk-in business, but so are the Starbucks; the difference is that small coffee shops are not able to pivot to a centralized delivery platform en masse the way Starbucks is.

Well there are plenty of catergories that make little sense. Why is Dick's Sporting goods closed but Walmart is open. Why is Kohl clothing store closed but Target is open. etc.

[deleted]

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#270

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Skunkleton wrote: post #256
akira2501 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you think of as failure - hospitals currently low utilization - is in fact success. What bothers me is the contention that my rights are contingent upon reported capacity of already existing hospitals. If this is truly a concern, and our rights our primary, then we should be building more hospitals so that we no longer have to make this Faustian bargain. It seems impractical and short-sighted to continue these…

> What bothers me is the contention that my rights are contingent upon reported capacity of already existing hospitals. What rights do you think you have here? Businesses are controlled through licensing and zoning. Outdoor spaces are regulated. Which right are you referring to?

The Bay Area shelter-in-place orders purport to ban you from inviting friends over, which is neither licensed nor regulated.
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