Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the idea with Zappos is that they're supposed to be such a great place to work that you wouldn't want to leave. And in Zappos' case, I get why they offered severance deals. They were embarking on a radical experiment in organizational structure, and not everyone is going to be on board with it. Rather than having a bunch of people at the water cooler talking shit about the changes, you offer them money to lea…
I'm surprised the number of people taking the deal isn't higher. If I need religious zeal, I'll go join a religion.
210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
251–260 of 327 posts
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could not agree more, the only downside is that some companies see you as a job hopper, but you can just explain to them that losing 30K-40K/year (aka staying in your job) is not an option
Is 30k-40k really correct? That seems a bit high to me.. If you could make even 30k more a year from switching jobs, and you started at the standard 100k, after 10 years you would be making 400k. I haven't heard of any developers who make 400k. Then again, I suppose you never said this was for developers, so is there another job where this actually applies?
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rather than having a bunch of people at the water cooler talking shit about the changes, you offer them money to leave so that people who aren't on board with the changes get out of the way. There's that element directly, but I think even more powerful is the sense to the employees that they are consciously opting in to staying. They are literally passing up a (small) pot of gold in order to stay in the new structure…
Doesn't Zappos make a similar offer to everyone that finishes their new employee training program?
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that Amazon is content to let Zappos experiment. If Zappos loses customers, statistically most of them will end up at Amazon anyway. Tony Hsieh is pretty out there, and a lot of his ideas sound kind of crazy, but I think Bezos believes in him and is willing to let him try. Even though everyone says "Oh, that won't work" you don't know until you try. If Zappos can experiment with a new leadership style, maybe…
It's a great place to work. There, you can no longer say "you never heard it's a great place to work". Sample size of 1, but I love it.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Corporate loyalty died when companies stopped paying pensions, or severely reducing pensions. Our parents always worried about pensions and corporate loyalty. In our generation, and especially technology, we make a lot more money, and can generally make even more by switching jobs. Therefor, corporate loyalty, in the current tech industry, is virtually dead. The one case that it isn't is perhaps companies like google…
The death of pensions really did it. My wife and I each stumbled upon positions with a pension, and it seems as if the roller-coaster just stopped. We had no "loyalty" and moved around whenever the mood struck us, but now we look at the risk/reward of a more exciting job vs 25 years of stability and a secure retirement... it's not a hard decision to make.
A few years later it turned out the "good profits" were actually accounting fraud. The company tanked and everyone lost their job. But Nortel had a fairly good pension system, so the people who had worked there for 25 years or more were fine, right?
Well, the company feared that while they were tanking the "best and brightest" executives would leave. Oh my! What to do? They were allowed to siphon the pension money into "executive retention bonuses". Of course this didn't stop the company from ultimately running out of money, but it did get rid of a large part of the pension money.
Investigate your pension scheme and make sure you understand what will happen to your money should the company go out of business. Especially find out where the pension system is ranked as a creditor. No company is too big to fail.
As for me, I only worked there for 5 years and left when it was at its height. After I quit I got a letter from Nortel stating that my minimal benefits were not worth it for them to administer. They were going to keep my pension money and I was welcome to sue if I didn't agree. I guess as it turned out, it didn't make much difference...
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#256I'm not sure how to gauge this. I think Holacracy may be one of the dumber pseudo-science management theories that's ever come out. If it works for Zappos I'll eat my hat I guess, but I have a feeling that all we'll hear about it is that "it's working great!" as the ship goes down in flames. Holacracy and other ultra-flat org structures always share two features: - It consolidates power in the people at the top (the…
Well, today Paddy Ashdown in the UK said he'd eat his hat if the exit polls in the UK were correct. They were correct. He didn't eat a hat. No matter what happens, you won't eat a hat. No matter what happens at zappo's I can 100% guarantee you will never eat a hat. I will 100% confirm that you will never, ever eat a hat because you are a liar. The only thing we can be 100% sure about is that you are a liar who will n…
I'm not even sure how to think about it. It's like some kind of weird attempt to get shadowbanned or something.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm surprised the number isn't higher because they recently moved Zappos from Henderson to downtown Las Vegas.
Recently? I'm pretty sure it was over 12mths ago as I toured the Vegas HQ in late May last year and it was well lived in by then.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#258Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#259I'm not sure how to gauge this. I think Holacracy may be one of the dumber pseudo-science management theories that's ever come out. If it works for Zappos I'll eat my hat I guess, but I have a feeling that all we'll hear about it is that "it's working great!" as the ship goes down in flames. Holacracy and other ultra-flat org structures always share two features: - It consolidates power in the people at the top (the…
Seems to work for Valve, with a few obvious problems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Corporation#Organizationa...
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Valve-Corporation-Reviews-E...
Here's some choice quotes:
"While it's true that Valve has no official job titles or promotions, compensation varies greatly among employees and many teams have an obvious pecking order. There is no formal management structure, but it's clear that some people have substantially more control over project direction and the work of others."
"Because teams are intended to be self-forming, it's rare that enough people will want to assume risk to all collectively embark on a new project. It's too safe and too profitable to just contribute to something that's already successful. Even though failure is supposed to be tolerated and even encouraged so that employees will try new ideas and experiments, there is little evidence of this. After a few rounds of bonuses, folks learn quickly what is rewarded, and what is not."
"The idealistic paradise is ultimately undone by a flawed review system. The lack of managers means that a peer review system is necessary, and Valve is very proud of theirs. But their review model is best described as a "popularity contest masquerading as data""
"Those who get stock options do extremely well, and the others do not. It’s an unacknowledged two-class system."
"The rational response to this uncertainty is to find a patron – somebody who can guarantee you a good review if you do their bidding. These patrons (the knights) guarantee themselves good reviews by doing the bidding of a higher-level patron (a baron), and the barons pledge fealty to the board members. This unofficial structure necessarily evolved and you opt out of it at your peril. The irony of a hierarchical structure spontaneously forming in Gabe Newell’s company after he has spoken so strongly about the problems of “command-and-control type hierarchical systems” is delicious. As was noted in “The Tyranny of Structurelessness”, “structurelessness becomes a way of masking power”, and this masked power is more insidious than formal power."
"So, I quit in order to get better compensation, an acknowledged hierarchy, and appreciation for my work."
"This organization has a purposely opaque, hierarchical, secretive, and very rigid management structure."
"Some projects can go on literally for 5+ years wandering around pointlessly without shipping, with little to no direction, and no accountability. This company is terrible at writing and shipping large scale software"
"The random mass firings of 2013 tanked moral, and the stream of talent leaving the company during 2014 didn't help."
"The yearly review process lacks feedback, transparency, and coverage. This company has no formal HR, so good luck if you need to give genuine feedback about troublesome coworkers."
"The lack of solid structure in management reduces the company to schoolyard politics where bullies and loudmouths reign." (Title: "It's like being in high school again")
"The culture at Valve is a bit like a cult. There's a party line and if you veer from that, it is discouraged with one-liners rather than discussion."
"The incentives are setup so the people who place themselves around upper management the most and are the loudest about what they're doing (that jives with what upper management likes) will be compensated several times more than those who don't."
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, today Paddy Ashdown in the UK said he'd eat his hat if the exit polls in the UK were correct. They were correct. He didn't eat a hat. No matter what happens, you won't eat a hat. No matter what happens at zappo's I can 100% guarantee you will never eat a hat. I will 100% confirm that you will never, ever eat a hat because you are a liar. The only thing we can be 100% sure about is that you are a liar who will n…
In this case "I'll eat my shoe" might be more appropriate.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Herzog_Eats_His_Shoe