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210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

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Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#171
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People work at a company for a variety of reasons. Some want or need the money. Some really believe in the company's mission. Some like the people they'll be working with. Some want to develop skills for their next move. Some want the brand name or status. Over time, the company will accrete people of all sorts of different motivations. What a buy-out does is take money out of the equation. It makes it so that everyo…

I don't see how the usual buyout amount would be able to take the money out of the equation. "Low performers" who don't have good chances in the job market surely will stay, since their earning potential is greater than what you reasonably offer them in a buyout. The likelihood that the skilled employees will take the money, knowing they will get another job immediately, is much higher.

The buyout is so that you get mediocre, financially motivated people to leave. The idea is that you give them enough cash that they can be reasonably sure they will find another job before running out, but not as much as you would pay out in salary if they stayed.

Imagine your employee base graphed on two orthogonal dimensions: their performance level, and their motivation for working for you. (In reality, "motivation for working for you" is actually many dimensions, and performance is likely to be somewhat correlated with certain motivations, but this illustrates the point at least.) The buyout offer doesn't affect people who aren't financially motivated, so take them out of the equation, and look only at the folks who are strictly financially rational.

You can loosely group them into high-performers (those who are known achievers, who always have an offer in hand as soon as they make overtures toward searching), mid-performers (those who pretty much amble along, and for whom the job search provokes intense anxiety, because they typically have to put in 3-6 months of full-time searching to find a new position), and low-performers (those who don't do anything and everyone already knows it). In most companies, the distribution of these is roughly 10-80-10. You can fire all the low performers; the point of bucketing them into the "low performer" category is that their underperformance is obvious enough that they leave a documented paper trail that makes this unambiguous. And in a company that's run into financial difficulties, the top 10% has probably already left, because they continually get job offers and when your company is going down the tubes, it's to their advantage to take them. That means that most of your financially-motivated employee base probably fits into the middle range, the folks who are average employees and will have average difficulty finding a new job.

The point of a buy-out is to reduce the anxiety levels surrounding getting that new job to the point where anyone who is unhappy at your company but isn't sure they have enough money or skills to go elsewhere ends up taking the leap.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#172
post #13

Thought experiment: ignore the holacracy angle and offer everyone in any company 3-months severance if they quit by a certain date. What percentage would quit? I wouldn't be surprised if the average was 10-20% and a vast majority of these people are taking advantage of what they see as a good deal irregardless of their feelings on holacracy as a management style.

What percentage would quit? The ones that could land another job by the quit date. They would essentially get a 3-month "bonus" for doing nothing. I would say this is only possible if the these people were looking to jump ship anyway.

And not happy with current job.

If I'm happy, I'm not quitting even though I could easily get another job. It's not always about the money.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#173
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics isn't tied to job titles. There still are people with different amounts of influence that try to influence others for their own goals. FWIW, Jeri Ellsworth (who was hired to do hardware stuff, didn't do well there and was fired in the end) described office politics at Valve "like back in high school". Not saying that it can't work, but it also is not without its flaws.

I wasn't aware of who Jeri Ellsworth was, but a cursory look says that she was fired by Valve. Were her comments before or after she was fired? I'm not sure that if it was after, we can necessarily count on it being objective. I've heard plenty of people make comments that aren't exactly the most accurate after they've been fired.

It's very difficult to deduce causality in that situation. She could have been fired due to not fitting in with the organization due to her valid concerns, or she could have brought up concerns due to bias from being fired. It is most likely somewhere in the middle, where her observations were somewhat truthful and somewhat biased.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#174

I work at a company that was in bad shape during the financial crisis. A temporary CEO was put in charge. Ultimately, a number of companies were merged to create one company that could survive. In the end, one of the CEO's of the merged companies became the CEO of the final company. His first act as CEO was to offer everyone in the company a tenure-based package to leave the company. I don't know the full numbers, bu…

It was the same at British telecom when there where such good incentives to leave that many of the key technical staff left.

Most of the Uk's mobile networks was designed and built by ex bt people who took redundancy

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#175
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporate loyalty has been dead for many, many years. The higher-ups in be corporations have yet to get that memo.

They got the memo; they just want to have their cake and eat it, too. They want you to be loyal to them , but to retain the option to dump you on the street as soon as somebody needs to bump their profit numbers by 0.1%.

You missed a zero or two on the right side of your decimal point.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#176
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was unclear what his intentions were. To determine loyalty to the company, possibly. Corporate loyalty has been dead for many, many years.

Corporate loyalty died when companies stopped paying pensions, or severely reducing pensions. Our parents always worried about pensions and corporate loyalty. In our generation, and especially technology, we make a lot more money, and can generally make even more by switching jobs. Therefor, corporate loyalty, in the current tech industry, is virtually dead. The one case that it isn't is perhaps companies like google…

The death of pensions really did it. My wife and I each stumbled upon positions with a pension, and it seems as if the roller-coaster just stopped. We had no "loyalty" and moved around whenever the mood struck us, but now we look at the risk/reward of a more exciting job vs 25 years of stability and a secure retirement... it's not a hard decision to make.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#177
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was unclear what his intentions were. To determine loyalty to the company, possibly. Corporate loyalty has been dead for many, many years.

Corporate loyalty died when companies stopped paying pensions, or severely reducing pensions. Our parents always worried about pensions and corporate loyalty. In our generation, and especially technology, we make a lot more money, and can generally make even more by switching jobs. Therefor, corporate loyalty, in the current tech industry, is virtually dead. The one case that it isn't is perhaps companies like google…

[deleted]

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#178
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics isn't tied to job titles. There still are people with different amounts of influence that try to influence others for their own goals. FWIW, Jeri Ellsworth (who was hired to do hardware stuff, didn't do well there and was fired in the end) described office politics at Valve "like back in high school". Not saying that it can't work, but it also is not without its flaws.

I wasn't aware of who Jeri Ellsworth was, but a cursory look says that she was fired by Valve. Were her comments before or after she was fired? I'm not sure that if it was after, we can necessarily count on it being objective. I've heard plenty of people make comments that aren't exactly the most accurate after they've been fired.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/valve-s-perfect-hiring-hi... , which is one of the parent posts, gives some of the timing details.

Even if it were before, would you "necessarily count on it being objective"? It seems like an impossibly high standard, given how many people make comments that aren't exactly accurate before they've been fired.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very similar in holocracy: the people who are natural leaders will fill the management needs of the organization; it's just more chaotic, less predictable, and not as good. The lack of structure brings out the worst in human behavior. In my experience, it is a horrible system in which to exist. It's highly ignorant of psychology and behavior theory almost intentionally, and it creates far more drama and politics…

> The lack of structure brings out the worst in human behavior. Well, that's your experience, and you're entitled to it. I'm finding the opposite. Though describing holacracy as a "lack of structure" seems like a pretty serious mis-statement. Holacracy is extremely structured - way more, and way more explicitly, than most organisations. It's kind of like the classic traditional observation that "agile is basically no…

I think that's very true, and I appreciate your perspective. I have no doubt it's very truthful, and there are some great things about the openness that might be possible with a holocracy or something like it.

I agree that the organization I worked in got it really badly wrong, but I also saw how the structure that was being followed (and there is a structure) sort of enabled that. It was a small organization and there were many other things going on that I think caused issues—so perhaps it's not 100% attributable to holocracy, and wasn't perhaps the best situation for it to be effective because of that.

I'll admit it was anecdotal. But I don't trust a process that, when followed fairly closely, had what appeared to be many holes in its organizational model that were suboptimal.

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