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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#251

Post by nottorp »

Aurornis wrote: post #234
twilo wrote: post #4

If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones will be most affected.

The goal should be reducing e-waste, and honestly this seems reasonable. I’d rather get the additional structural rigidity, compactness, and weatherproofing that comes from the tight construction and then pay $99 to have Apple professionally install a new battery for me in 3-4 years. Forcing everyone’s iPhone to take all of the tradeoffs of replaceable batteries so some people can save $50 to replace their own batter…

> and then pay $99 to have Apple professionally install a new battery for me in 3-4 years

In 3-4 years yes, but how about in 10-15 years? Apple will refuse to take your money then.

> Apple will send you the entire toolkit if you want complete with a return label.

Which is malicious compliance. They should allow the friendly neighborhood repair shop to purchase a toolkit so you can choose who does the repairs for you.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#252

Post by randomNumber7 »

konschubert wrote: post #239
LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

This won’t do much for the environment. Even today, phone batteries get replaced until the phone is no longer able to run today’s software.

I recently swapped a broken display + the battery of a smartphone. It's definitely possible with recent devices (although apple might be different).

You need some skill and patience to cut it open etc. without damage, so most people should probably go to a repair shop.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#253

Post by mminer237 »

fainpul wrote: post #185
mminer237 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat guns and pryers are commercially available. I don't think this will change anything there.

You're wrong about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47835530

Thanks. I couldn't find the text for the life of me. Glad to be wrong.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#254

Post by randomNumber7 »

jszymborski wrote: post #233
LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

I know a common refrain with my friends is "IDGAF about an extra few centimeters, give me an audio jack". I think consumers are down for thicker phones if they get something for it. In this case, a phone that lasts longer

I'm pretty sure most companies optimize for what the consumers actually want.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#255

Post by wincy »

bombcar wrote: post #148
konschubert wrote: post #120

Aren't today's phone batteries already replaceable with commercially available tools? I can walk into a non-apple store with my iPhone and walk out with a replaced battery 20 minutes later. This isn't even what drives obsolesce of phones, it's software updates. If you really want to be able to self-swap your own battery, you can just buy an Android that has a replaceable battery. Do we need to regulate something that…

They're taking "commercially available" to mean things like a screwdriver - not a $1000 phone disassembly machine.

With all due respect, I can buy a kit on iFixit for $55 for an iPhone 16 pro max, including the battery. I’ve replaced my iPhone battery before, aside from the glue being a bit sticky so needing a heat gun it isn’t that difficult.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#257

Post by Aachen »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #23
PaulKeeble wrote: post #2

Batteries have been used as part of planned obsolescence for too long and a whole small business industry of replacing phone batteries has appeared because of it. Next the EU are going to have to address security patches because its another aspect being used to sell new phones.

The EU already requires 5 years of patches since last year. Motorola thinks they have found a loophole, so there are still some, ahem, patches needed to the law.

Do you have more info about this? I recommended Motorola phones to people based on a combination of price, their needs, and expected longevity (at least 5y now with the new update and replacement part requirements). If that's not the case then I want to update my recommendations

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#258

Post by emtel »

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery".

It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law will make phones _worse_ for most people, because this law will force phone manufacturers to compromise the things that most people want in order to provide something that most people don't want.

I suppose someone will say that this law is necessary for environmental reasons, regardless of people's preferences. But that's nonsense, because the law doesn't actually require people to replace batteries rather than replacing their phone, and by the time batteries wear out, most people are going to want a new a phone. At the very least we'd need to see some data that shows that most people replace batteries when it is possible to do so.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#259

Post by wa2flq »

cowl wrote: post #207
throwaway27448 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather my phone be waterproof than have a battery I can replace myself

you can have both. the waterproof was just an excuse to make you either change the phone or go to a specialised center to change the battery, something that is so incovinient/expensive that people just obsolete their phone instead.

I trust that most batteries from iPhones are currently recycled through proper means either by Apple or third party firms.

I don't know how most people will dispose of user replacement batteries, but I suspect the recycle rates will be lower. If you want to ensure higher rates you also need to do something they do in the USA for car lead acid batteries. Charge a deposit fee on the new battery that is returned only when the battery is turned into a valid recycling entity.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#260

Post by cruffle_duffle »

mentalgear wrote: post #58

I was looking forward to finally be able to easily switch out (i)Phone batteries again - after 20 years - but turns out the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co from making their phones more repairable / longer live-able. > If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt

“ If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt”

I mean isn’t that an okay exemption? If the intent is to drive devices to be less disposable and more sustainable… if it incentivizes all mobile phone manufacturers to improve battery longevity, I’d say that’s a win.

I wouldn’t even call it a loophole. The entire purpose of the legislation could be that clause

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