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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#231

Post by Aachen »

brk wrote: post #147
OutOfHere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.

In a perfect world, sure. But people also want phones these days that are physically durable, have some degree of waterproofing/water resistance, maximum battery life, etc. Many of the demands and expectations of a modern phone aren't easily compatible with a replaceable battery design that can withstand the incompetence of the average end user.

> some degree of waterproofing/water resistance

Can we have this discussion once? In this thread alone, there's like 50 instances of people making this claim and each time it takes about 20 minutes before at least one person replies that it's not the case, after which no refutals are posted. I'm happy to learn it is false if it is (I never had a phone that I trusted to be waterproof to any degree so I don't have first-hand knowledge), but it gets really tiring to read the same information level over and over as a reason for why we can't have nice things

Taking this comment as an example of someone who actually used a battery-swappable phone in rain on a motorcycle: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47835184 (I'm not only taking the person's word for it: the device is also IP certified as waterproof 30 mins at 1m depth)

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#232

Post by pyrale »

nonethewiser wrote: post #149
OutOfHere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.

Engage with the content of his comment instead of resorting to ad hominem. He's right - the market wants embedded batteries, although perhaps not directly. Embedded batteries have improved price, battery capacity, water proofing, size, and strength. If the consumer really wanted a removable battery and all that that entails then there would be more phones that offered that. The reality is people misjudge what all tha…

You say "the market wants" like consumers are given much choice.

Using that hypothesis, the market also loves cookie banners and prefers subscriptions over one-time payments.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#233

Post by jszymborski »

LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

I know a common refrain with my friends is "IDGAF about an extra few centimeters, give me an audio jack". I think consumers are down for thicker phones if they get something for it. In this case, a phone that lasts longer

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#234

Post by Aurornis »

twilo wrote: post #4

If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones will be most affected.

The goal should be reducing e-waste, and honestly this seems reasonable.

I’d rather get the additional structural rigidity, compactness, and weatherproofing that comes from the tight construction and then pay $99 to have Apple professionally install a new battery for me in 3-4 years. Forcing everyone’s iPhone to take all of the tradeoffs of replaceable batteries so some people can save $50 to replace their own battery isn’t a good deal.

I wouldn’t be surprised if forcing all phones to have easily replaceable batteries would result in a net increase in e-waste due to the additional failure modes introduced. Even if batteries were easily replaceable I think most iPhone users would have Apple do it for them anyway.

I’ve also replaced some iPhone batteries myself and it’s really not that bad if you are familiar with taking modern electronics apart. Apple will send you the entire toolkit if you want complete with a return label.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#236

Post by bethekidyouwant »

They’re just going to change the software for thebattery so that it only charges to 80% capacity so that it meets the requirement of 1000 cycles no one is actually getting replaceable batteries. Edit: commercially available tools. All right so you just sell that tool on your shop.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#237

Post by q3k »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #146
OutOfHere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.

I'd rather my phone be waterproof than have a battery I can replace myself

We have the technology to have both - it's called a gasket.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#238

Post by addaon »

OutOfHere wrote: post #173
nonethewiser wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engage with the content of his comment instead of resorting to ad hominem. He's right - the market wants embedded batteries, although perhaps not directly. Embedded batteries have improved price, battery capacity, water proofing, size, and strength. If the consumer really wanted a removable battery and all that that entails then there would be more phones that offered that. The reality is people misjudge what all tha…

I originally did engage with the comment. Water-resistance absolutely still is physically possible if the replacement battery is waterproof. Water can over time be corrosive at the contacts, but that's a risk for the user. It does not in any way imply that water will enter the internals of the device from the point of contact with the battery. This will require a bit of engineering at the contact to ensure that water…

Wait, are you proposing sealing the phone and sealing the battery separately, but not sealing the contacts between them? That’s… super sketchy for salt water immersion. Unless you add fuses and a BMS and safety mechanisms into the “battery”. In which case wouldn’t customers want to be able to replace the actual battery within the now-a-battery-plus-computer phone accessory once it wears down?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#239

Post by konschubert »

LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

This won’t do much for the environment.

Even today, phone batteries get replaced until the phone is no longer able to run today’s software.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#240

Post by Tagbert »

jszymborski wrote: post #233
LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

I know a common refrain with my friends is "IDGAF about an extra few centimeters, give me an audio jack". I think consumers are down for thicker phones if they get something for it. In this case, a phone that lasts longer

You assume that everyone needs more battery life. That need is highly variable based on different use and access to chargers.
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