Changes since congestion pricing started in New York • Hacker News Board

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#251

Post by gjsman-1000 » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:01 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #249

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I can't find any source online that says felony assaults on the subway are up 9% this year. Even the Post, which is typically inclined towards hyping crime rates, reports that felony assault rates are flat this year[1]. The same source claims that major offenses have dropped 18% YoY so far. As with so many other things about NYC, salacious stories are given a funhouse mirror effect: you wouldn't want to fill your car…

3 hours ago:

https://nypost.com/2025/05/14/us-news/nyc-subway-musicians-f...

New York Times in March:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/14/nyregion/subway-crime-nyc...

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#252

Post by Larrikin » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:04 AM UTC

neves wrote: post #40

philipallstar wrote: post #9

The increased speeds are excellent for those who can afford the toll. This is a universal benefit of toll roads for those people.

The best decision would be to completely forbid individual transport. Now the common space dedicated to streets is for who can pay extra. Forbid individual transport and create some parks and pedestrian streets.

If I live in a NYC like this how do I visit my friends in Philadelphia? What if they live in Towson MD? Now what if they live in the suburbs? How would I visit anybody in the country side anywhere? What if I want to buy in bulk at Costco? What if I just want to buy anything I can't carry on the subway?

I have spent over a decade without owning a car in multiple cities. It's definitely possible but I've been fortunate enough to have friends and family with personal vehicles I can use.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#253

Post by SchemaLoad » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:07 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #215

david-gpu wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that noise pollution in Manhattan has gotten better since congestion pricing started. Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

Cars aren't nearly as loud as sirens and garbage trucks. Whenever I stay in a dense city those tend to keep me up at night.

Without cars, emergency vehicles could have their sirens at 10% of the volume. Garbage trucks and busses are slowly being replaced by electric versions which are much quieter.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#254

Post by woodruffw » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:09 AM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #251

woodruffw wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find any source online that says felony assaults on the subway are up 9% this year. Even the Post, which is typically inclined towards hyping crime rates, reports that felony assault rates are flat this year[1]. The same source claims that major offenses have dropped 18% YoY so far. As with so many other things about NYC, salacious stories are given a funhouse mirror effect: you wouldn't want to fill your car…

3 hours ago: https://nypost.com/2025/05/14/us-news/nyc-subway-musicians-f... New York Times in March: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/14/nyregion/subway-crime-nyc...

This Post article doesn't provide a source. Mine claims the NYPD as a source but doesn't link it either, though. It seems like only one of these can be correct: there would have to be a very large spike in felony assaults in a single month for the number to go up by 9% YoY.

The Times article doesn't mention this year's stats. Last year's were definitely worse, so it's not surprising they mention that.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#255

Post by fallingknife » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:09 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #245

echelon wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-driving cars are going to turn America's car-centric "hellscape" into a superpower with untold second order benefits. Everything will be connected and commutable, especially the suburbs. Automated, on-demand delivery will become a part of everyday life. Instead of busses and semis, we'll have small pods for smaller cargo and small parties. Highways will turn into logistics corridors, and we'll route people and g…

China is going to reap more benefits from self driving cars, but they also have (in many cities at least) mass transit in place to truly do multi-modal trips (self driving cars at the end tips of subway rides). The problem with self driving cars is that they can only optimize road bandwidth a bit more than they are now (and even then, only if you outlaw human drivers), they aren’t a magical shortcut to increasing ban…

The multi-modal hassle is why cars are so popular in the first place.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#256

Post by SchemaLoad » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:10 AM UTC

efavdb wrote: post #244

9283409232 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car-centric design is hell for parents and kids alike.

FWIW I like driving my kid to school in my car. YMMV

I hated feeling completely stranded as a kid since nothing was accessible by foot or PT. Even today visiting my parents outer suburban house feels like being dumped on an island.

My social life as a teenager was incredibly limited by the fact that I couldn't just jump on a bus and meet up with everyone else who lived in areas with PT coverage.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#257

Post by SchemaLoad » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:12 AM UTC

mcmoor wrote: post #230

toomuchtodo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment from that video: "When cars were banned from Central Park drivers whined and now we can't imagine it any other way." Everything is impossible until it is done.

The opposite is also true. We can descend slowly into dystopia and we forget how good it can actually be.

That was the invention of the car. Public spaces used to be massively better and people went out and socialized more.

And now people have forgotten that almost all the problems cars solve today are problems caused by cars in the first place.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#258

Post by whoodle » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:15 AM UTC

vb234 wrote: post #208

donohoe wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Brooklyn with kids and do not have a car. Equally possible in Manhattan - have car-less friends with kids there too. Just saying it is possible, and certainly not everyone’s choice.

Same. We live in Manhattan with two kids and owning a car is just an added expense without much benefit. To be fair, if you lived further out in Brooklyn (Bayridge, Sussex Beach and Coney Island) you probably need a car for the day to day.

Any rough guess the min income to raise a kid in manhattan nowadays?

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#259

Post by SoftTalker » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:18 AM UTC

crote wrote: post #115

SoftTalker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremes rarely work out well. The people paying for the luxury are funding improvements for everyone.

It works really well in quite a few other cities, actually. Car infrastructure takes up a huge amount of space and is incredibly hostile to any kind of mixed use. Having near-zero cars means there is suddenly space available for an order of magnitude more pedestrians. It's why reducing car traffic almost always results in a significant increase in revenue for local shops and restaurants - which means more taxes are b…

A few pedestrian streets or blocks might be worth doing, banning all private vehicles from the entire downtown probably not going to happen or be well received if tried.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#260

Post by mancerayder » Thu, May 15, 2025, 2:20 AM UTC

neither_color wrote: post #223

neves wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best decision would be to completely forbid individual transport. Now the common space dedicated to streets is for who can pay extra. Forbid individual transport and create some parks and pedestrian streets.

These threads tend to devolve into, "Americans are so unsophisticated everyone else in the world is banning cars and turning downtown into walkable utopia" but what they really mean by rest of the world is a few crowded European cities. If you look at all the new rich mega cities built in the Middle East and East Asia cars continue to exist alongside good public transit as aspirational status icons and the preferred…

There are plenty of cars in Paris and London. It just feels as though people walking are a priority more than they are in NYC. Cars feel compelled more often outside of NYC, where they also block intersections and park next to crosswalks and block visibility.